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Does/Should D&D Have the Player's Game Experience as a goal?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9240339" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I ran RM weekly for nearly 10 years, then fortnightly for another 10 years. Like everything in RM, there are multiple in-print options for enchanting items, purchasing items, etc. I started with some amalgam of these and over my 19 years of GMing built up my own rules.</p><p></p><p>The players knew what these were, and from time-to-time would have their PCs purchase items that they needed.</p><p></p><p>Balancing items is easier in Burning Wheel and Torchbearer, I think, because the default thing for an item to do is to give a +1D or +2D bonus, which is a fairly standard "unit of measure" within the action resolution system.</p><p></p><p>Or when it comes to elixirs and salves, we can compare the Obstacle of the test needed to make an item that will cure Exhaustion (Ob 3 Alchemist test) if it is a broth that must be taken warm in camp or town phase) with the Obstacle of the recovery test (Ob 3 Health test in camp or town phase). So the effect of having an Alchemist in the party is to change who can perform the required test, and the ability against which the test is made. There is scope here for optimisation (of success chances, of PC development, given that tests lead to improvement a bit like RuneQuest, etc). But the likelihood of <em>breakage</em> is low.</p><p></p><p>Other sorts of benefits conferred by magic items can be "rated" against some of these core elements.</p><p></p><p>While I think AD&D or 5e is harder (cf 4e, which deliberately changes many features of magic item design precisely to enhance the systematicity of their integration with and comparability to other aspects of PC build), I don't think it needs to be impossible.</p><p></p><p>See above.</p><p></p><p>In Torchbearer, which is the system I have been thinking the most about in this respect recently, one thing to keep in mind is that the "scale" of moving parts is smaller.</p><p></p><p>For instance, in AD&D a 9th level MU has something like a dozen spell slots. And a Ring of Wizardry (flagged in the DMG as a particularly powerful ring) doubles all the slots of one or more levels.</p><p></p><p>In Torchbearer, a 9th level magician who has increased their Memory Palace at every opportunity has a 5-slot memory palace, which is 5 1st level spells, 1 5th level spell (the highest level of spell in the system), or any other combination adding up to five. So a ring that adds 1 slot to the character's Memory Palace is strong. Likewise, a sword that adds +1D to all combat actions is strong. There is no real analogue to the gradation of +1 to +6 weapons.</p><p></p><p>This makes balancing easier.</p><p></p><p>The guidelines take the form of the Obstacles for creating various sorts of items. Not every conceivable item is covered, but they provide a basis for extrapolation.</p><p></p><p>If a PC wanted to sell an item, that would be handled under the general rules for selling valuables. An item that is Ob 1 to Ob 3 to purchase will generally not be saleable (as the rulebook puts it, "no one wants your stinky, rusty junk"); an item that is Ob 4 to Ob 7 to purchase can be sold for 1D of cash; and an item that is Ob 8+ to purchase can be sold for 2D. Attempts to do better than that can be resolved case-by-case using the rules for Haggling and for Negotiation conflicts.</p><p></p><p>The PCs in my game have purchased potions twice - both times to cure Sickness, which is a particularly debilitating condition that is not easily recovered during town phase - and an alchemical explosive once. In our session on Sunday, the explosives-oriented PC also successfully put together a green slime grenade (by first successfully bullying a clay pot away from his Gnoll captors, and then successfully avoiding an attempt by a Creeping Ooze to trap and kill him, and then carving off a little bit of the ooze as it crept away).</p><p></p><p>I've given that last example to try and convey the way in which making and acquiring items is a more integrated part of the action resolution system in Torchbearer (and Burning Wheel is fairly similar) than in any version of D&D other than 4e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9240339, member: 42582"] I ran RM weekly for nearly 10 years, then fortnightly for another 10 years. Like everything in RM, there are multiple in-print options for enchanting items, purchasing items, etc. I started with some amalgam of these and over my 19 years of GMing built up my own rules. The players knew what these were, and from time-to-time would have their PCs purchase items that they needed. Balancing items is easier in Burning Wheel and Torchbearer, I think, because the default thing for an item to do is to give a +1D or +2D bonus, which is a fairly standard "unit of measure" within the action resolution system. Or when it comes to elixirs and salves, we can compare the Obstacle of the test needed to make an item that will cure Exhaustion (Ob 3 Alchemist test) if it is a broth that must be taken warm in camp or town phase) with the Obstacle of the recovery test (Ob 3 Health test in camp or town phase). So the effect of having an Alchemist in the party is to change who can perform the required test, and the ability against which the test is made. There is scope here for optimisation (of success chances, of PC development, given that tests lead to improvement a bit like RuneQuest, etc). But the likelihood of [I]breakage[/I] is low. Other sorts of benefits conferred by magic items can be "rated" against some of these core elements. While I think AD&D or 5e is harder (cf 4e, which deliberately changes many features of magic item design precisely to enhance the systematicity of their integration with and comparability to other aspects of PC build), I don't think it needs to be impossible. See above. In Torchbearer, which is the system I have been thinking the most about in this respect recently, one thing to keep in mind is that the "scale" of moving parts is smaller. For instance, in AD&D a 9th level MU has something like a dozen spell slots. And a Ring of Wizardry (flagged in the DMG as a particularly powerful ring) doubles all the slots of one or more levels. In Torchbearer, a 9th level magician who has increased their Memory Palace at every opportunity has a 5-slot memory palace, which is 5 1st level spells, 1 5th level spell (the highest level of spell in the system), or any other combination adding up to five. So a ring that adds 1 slot to the character's Memory Palace is strong. Likewise, a sword that adds +1D to all combat actions is strong. There is no real analogue to the gradation of +1 to +6 weapons. This makes balancing easier. The guidelines take the form of the Obstacles for creating various sorts of items. Not every conceivable item is covered, but they provide a basis for extrapolation. If a PC wanted to sell an item, that would be handled under the general rules for selling valuables. An item that is Ob 1 to Ob 3 to purchase will generally not be saleable (as the rulebook puts it, "no one wants your stinky, rusty junk"); an item that is Ob 4 to Ob 7 to purchase can be sold for 1D of cash; and an item that is Ob 8+ to purchase can be sold for 2D. Attempts to do better than that can be resolved case-by-case using the rules for Haggling and for Negotiation conflicts. The PCs in my game have purchased potions twice - both times to cure Sickness, which is a particularly debilitating condition that is not easily recovered during town phase - and an alchemical explosive once. In our session on Sunday, the explosives-oriented PC also successfully put together a green slime grenade (by first successfully bullying a clay pot away from his Gnoll captors, and then successfully avoiding an attempt by a Creeping Ooze to trap and kill him, and then carving off a little bit of the ooze as it crept away). I've given that last example to try and convey the way in which making and acquiring items is a more integrated part of the action resolution system in Torchbearer (and Burning Wheel is fairly similar) than in any version of D&D other than 4e. [/QUOTE]
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