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Does the "Friends" cantrip need a fix?
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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 6612923" data-attributes="member: 43019"><p>Friends is a pretty awful cantrip at anything you'd think it was intentionally designed to do, though it does have a couple very specific uses. </p><p></p><p>1) Instant response checks, like getting someone to open a door for you, create a distraction, or potentially to secure a surprise round.</p><p>2) Disguised reaction forcing. Use disguise self or similar and then use Friends to create enemies.</p><p></p><p>For most other uses, you pretty much lose because of its duration, limited effect, downside, _and_ the fact that you're casting a spell.</p><p></p><p>Duration: Want to convince the guard to go to the magister? Unfortunately it took you half the duration just to say the requisite sentences, then he got the key, went to the door, opened it and said "Hey, wait" - so he never even left your sight. Depending on the DM, the spell will often intrinsically be useless except as a distraction because conversations themselves take longer than a minute in general (for real fun use a timer at the table)</p><p></p><p>Limited Effect: Advantage is nice, but Guidance would likely make the difference between failure and success just as often. Layering the two can work better, of course, but even then you're not getting anything special out of the person from the cantrip. In fact, comparing it to Guidance gets a bit rough since Friends is much more limited, doesn't stack with other advantage sources like an assist (_very_ easy in talky situations) and inspiration, and has a duration and downside.</p><p> </p><p>Downside: The person instantly snaps hostile. This is actually a very strong effect, one you can game around, but as downsides go, on a spell that doesn't even ensure momentary success in the first place, it's pretty rough.</p><p></p><p>Casting: To get best use out of it, you need to cast it before you get near the target, requiring even more setup and duration. Because if you're in a jail cell, cast an obvious spell, then try to talk to the guard, then you probably just gave yourself disadvantage on whatever you were trying to do. Or possibly a crossbow bolt to the face. I've seen _more_ attempts to cast an enchantment turn into "Roll initiative" than I've seen successful uses of Friends at the table.</p><p></p><p>In fact, I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that I've never seen a successful use of Friends as intended, mostly because either dice result would have succeeded in the few instances where it was cast without a hitch.</p><p></p><p>I have seen using Disguise Self + Friends to create enemies, though. It's a ridiculous side effect, but at least it actually works, unlike the theoretical purpose of the cantrip <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="keterys, post: 6612923, member: 43019"] Friends is a pretty awful cantrip at anything you'd think it was intentionally designed to do, though it does have a couple very specific uses. 1) Instant response checks, like getting someone to open a door for you, create a distraction, or potentially to secure a surprise round. 2) Disguised reaction forcing. Use disguise self or similar and then use Friends to create enemies. For most other uses, you pretty much lose because of its duration, limited effect, downside, _and_ the fact that you're casting a spell. Duration: Want to convince the guard to go to the magister? Unfortunately it took you half the duration just to say the requisite sentences, then he got the key, went to the door, opened it and said "Hey, wait" - so he never even left your sight. Depending on the DM, the spell will often intrinsically be useless except as a distraction because conversations themselves take longer than a minute in general (for real fun use a timer at the table) Limited Effect: Advantage is nice, but Guidance would likely make the difference between failure and success just as often. Layering the two can work better, of course, but even then you're not getting anything special out of the person from the cantrip. In fact, comparing it to Guidance gets a bit rough since Friends is much more limited, doesn't stack with other advantage sources like an assist (_very_ easy in talky situations) and inspiration, and has a duration and downside. Downside: The person instantly snaps hostile. This is actually a very strong effect, one you can game around, but as downsides go, on a spell that doesn't even ensure momentary success in the first place, it's pretty rough. Casting: To get best use out of it, you need to cast it before you get near the target, requiring even more setup and duration. Because if you're in a jail cell, cast an obvious spell, then try to talk to the guard, then you probably just gave yourself disadvantage on whatever you were trying to do. Or possibly a crossbow bolt to the face. I've seen _more_ attempts to cast an enchantment turn into "Roll initiative" than I've seen successful uses of Friends at the table. In fact, I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that I've never seen a successful use of Friends as intended, mostly because either dice result would have succeeded in the few instances where it was cast without a hitch. I have seen using Disguise Self + Friends to create enemies, though. It's a ridiculous side effect, but at least it actually works, unlike the theoretical purpose of the cantrip :) [/QUOTE]
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Does the "Friends" cantrip need a fix?
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