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Doh! Killed my party with a skill challenge
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7508314" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Here’s what I meant:</p><p></p><p>During a negotiation challenge, it’s easy to see a player’s failure make things worse for the whole group by straining the NPC’s patience or even offending them. There’s a clear sense that their actions have made it worse and a clear feedback the DM can provide to that effect.</p><p></p><p>Back to the exploding dungeon. Failing to leap a collapsing stone bridge and falling sucks, to be sure, but it doesn’t affect the overall collapse/explosion of the dungeon, it doesn’t make the structure any less structurally “sound” than it already is. It’s an exploding dungeon! That’s already pretty bad! And, really, it doesn’t affect the entire group...yes their friend is in danger, but that’s more of a complication to be dealt with creatively, not a scenario where “oh no, two more of us failed checks while rescuing Yurik and our actions have hastened the collapse!” That doesn’t make sense. </p><p></p><p>Also, you have to consider what’s fun for your group...I know if I described players constantly falling back down to a previous level (with the pressure of 3 failures = failing the challenge), it would quickly become an exercise in frustration for them, especially cause of the feeling of retreading old ground. There *are* tricks to handle that, but mostly a DM doesn’t want to resort to those unless there’s no other recourse.</p><p></p><p>Now, I want to caveat this that it does depend on the <strong>narrative</strong> — which the OP would do well to share more of — for example if this was more of a collapsed mine scenario, with the structure already having collapsed on top of the PCs/NPCs and they’re having to clear rubble to escape/rescue, then I could see 3 failures making sense (e.g. force magic like thunderwave or a ring of the ram could clear a path but could also cause more debris to come crashing down, risking sealing them off forever).</p><p></p><p>I’ve seen so many people fixate on the mechanics but neglect the underlying narrative/frame/stakes, that I’ve been considering referring to them not as “skill challenges” but as “story challenges.”</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7508314, member: 20323"] Here’s what I meant: During a negotiation challenge, it’s easy to see a player’s failure make things worse for the whole group by straining the NPC’s patience or even offending them. There’s a clear sense that their actions have made it worse and a clear feedback the DM can provide to that effect. Back to the exploding dungeon. Failing to leap a collapsing stone bridge and falling sucks, to be sure, but it doesn’t affect the overall collapse/explosion of the dungeon, it doesn’t make the structure any less structurally “sound” than it already is. It’s an exploding dungeon! That’s already pretty bad! And, really, it doesn’t affect the entire group...yes their friend is in danger, but that’s more of a complication to be dealt with creatively, not a scenario where “oh no, two more of us failed checks while rescuing Yurik and our actions have hastened the collapse!” That doesn’t make sense. Also, you have to consider what’s fun for your group...I know if I described players constantly falling back down to a previous level (with the pressure of 3 failures = failing the challenge), it would quickly become an exercise in frustration for them, especially cause of the feeling of retreading old ground. There *are* tricks to handle that, but mostly a DM doesn’t want to resort to those unless there’s no other recourse. Now, I want to caveat this that it does depend on the [B]narrative[/B] — which the OP would do well to share more of — for example if this was more of a collapsed mine scenario, with the structure already having collapsed on top of the PCs/NPCs and they’re having to clear rubble to escape/rescue, then I could see 3 failures making sense (e.g. force magic like thunderwave or a ring of the ram could clear a path but could also cause more debris to come crashing down, risking sealing them off forever). I’ve seen so many people fixate on the mechanics but neglect the underlying narrative/frame/stakes, that I’ve been considering referring to them not as “skill challenges” but as “story challenges.” [/QUOTE]
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