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<blockquote data-quote="moritheil" data-source="post: 4658223" data-attributes="member: 30610"><p>Okay, I'm not saying you're not right, just that I'm automatically skeptical because few things are more versatile than full cleric spellcasting. So let's look at the details:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I get it, but her actual turning level is low, because she's not really a full cleric (or a Cleric/PrC that advances turning.) She'll be fine at nuking disposable undead, but unlikely to affect anything you really care about (i.e. a threat at your level - which will be much higher level than her cleric level, and have turn resistance.) And if she WERE a full cleric, she could use that higher level turning and use some of those high-level slots she'd be getting instead to summon monsters which could wipe out those low-leveled undead for you. Or, you know, cast some of those undead-destroying spells clerics get.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I use this feat in my own builds. I'm familiar with it. It's awesome at low levels. The problem here is that you're giving up casting to focus on this. Is this feat better than Heal, for when you want someone healed right away in the middle of combat, and they've also maybe been poisoned/infected or they've lost some abillity points due to an allip or something? I think Heal is superior. You say you can heal 144 damage with a touch? Great. One casting of heal heals 150 damage, and <em>also</em> fixes status effects. You want to heal townsfolk? Mass lesser vigor has you covered - heal 25 hit points of damage to all your nearby allies with just one 3rd level spell. She'd have a couple extra slots for it if she were a full clerical caster. </p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't argue that they aren't helpful, just that I don't know if they're worth giving up that much spellcasting. Couldn't you use Planar Ally and get one of those singing lillends to act as a party bard for tough fights and give you similar boosts? You might be a little behind the auras there, true, but you've got <em>full casting</em> in addition to the other stuff. You can cast mass aid and other buffs to fill in the gap.</p><p></p><p>Basically my point is, anything you're trying to do with assorted aura bonuses, I can duplicate with full casting, and I can also have the option to throw off powerful effects like heal, high-level summon monster, etc. Auras are great, but so are spells like Hallow and Disrupting Weapon (all undead you hit save or die - wouldn't that be nice against an undead boss?) You won't get them if you cut off your cleric level at 8, and you don't need to cut your cleric level off just to boost the party.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="moritheil, post: 4658223, member: 30610"] Okay, I'm not saying you're not right, just that I'm automatically skeptical because few things are more versatile than full cleric spellcasting. So let's look at the details: I get it, but her actual turning level is low, because she's not really a full cleric (or a Cleric/PrC that advances turning.) She'll be fine at nuking disposable undead, but unlikely to affect anything you really care about (i.e. a threat at your level - which will be much higher level than her cleric level, and have turn resistance.) And if she WERE a full cleric, she could use that higher level turning and use some of those high-level slots she'd be getting instead to summon monsters which could wipe out those low-leveled undead for you. Or, you know, cast some of those undead-destroying spells clerics get. I use this feat in my own builds. I'm familiar with it. It's awesome at low levels. The problem here is that you're giving up casting to focus on this. Is this feat better than Heal, for when you want someone healed right away in the middle of combat, and they've also maybe been poisoned/infected or they've lost some abillity points due to an allip or something? I think Heal is superior. You say you can heal 144 damage with a touch? Great. One casting of heal heals 150 damage, and [I]also[/I] fixes status effects. You want to heal townsfolk? Mass lesser vigor has you covered - heal 25 hit points of damage to all your nearby allies with just one 3rd level spell. She'd have a couple extra slots for it if she were a full clerical caster. I don't argue that they aren't helpful, just that I don't know if they're worth giving up that much spellcasting. Couldn't you use Planar Ally and get one of those singing lillends to act as a party bard for tough fights and give you similar boosts? You might be a little behind the auras there, true, but you've got [I]full casting[/I] in addition to the other stuff. You can cast mass aid and other buffs to fill in the gap. Basically my point is, anything you're trying to do with assorted aura bonuses, I can duplicate with full casting, and I can also have the option to throw off powerful effects like heal, high-level summon monster, etc. Auras are great, but so are spells like Hallow and Disrupting Weapon (all undead you hit save or die - wouldn't that be nice against an undead boss?) You won't get them if you cut off your cleric level at 8, and you don't need to cut your cleric level off just to boost the party. [/QUOTE]
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