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[Dread] Jenga beat up my dice! My results from the indie horror RPG.
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<blockquote data-quote="Eunomiac" data-source="post: 5757792" data-attributes="member: 6686214"><p><strong>malcolypse:</strong> I'm thinking the key is to show your players how easy it is to scare the crap out of everyone: walking around behind them, playing creepy music, and being all laid-back about it is working for me. As for finding players, I've had great success strong-arming people into the game ("come on, I know you won't even play Risk, but you'll have a blast, I PROMISE!") </p><p></p><p><strong>Janx:</strong> Great advice, and in fact I did alter the format a bit when I posted it. The agendas were all phrased as "YOU ACCOMPLISH YOUR AGENDA IF: <situation>", so they were clearer than the ones I posted. I do like your "action phrases" better, though, and will take your advice next time, thank you!</p><p></p><p><strong>Olaf the Stout:</strong> Here are the notes I condensed from this thread and from another on the subject of judging when the Tower likely falls. Each bullet is a comment from either an experienced host or the designer, which is why they occasionally conflict (all different opinions/experiences):</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It seems like a 4 hour game would most often see 30 pulls and 1 death (happening around pull #25).<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u>DESIGNER RESPONSE</u>: "... things get ridiculous around pull 45 ... try to go for a pull every 5 minutes for a 4 hour game ... people will be making multiple pulls, so it's okay to go a half hour without a pull and then yank six. Just make sure everything feels on pace."</li> </ul> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"... the tower is generally good for 35-55 pulls before it falls. With beginning groups ... it'll be near the bottom of that range."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><u>DESIGNER</u><strong>:</strong> "... it becomes nerve-wracking for me around 25 pulls. ... other, less experienced groups get nervous with as little as 12-15 pulls."<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">USE THEIR MISCONCEPTIONS re: INSABILITY! Play up any tension about how rickety the Tower <em>appears</em>, AND about how every pull makes every future pull that much harder.</li> </ul> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Generally only klutziness will bring it down before 20 pulls.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Most of the time you'll see a tower collapse in the late 20s or so.</li> </ul><p>So, there really is a HUGE range during which the tower could possibly fall (anywhere from 20 up to nearly 60). And this range can vary a great deal even within a single game—the Tower fell twice in my first game: the first time it was somewhere in the early 20s, possibly even sooner; it then lasted until at least 45 pulls, and even then it was a heroic sacrifice that brought it down.</p><p></p><p>By far the best advice, I thought, was that players tend to <em>think</em> the Tower is about to fall LONG before it actually does, and that you shouldn't dispel this misconception, but encourage it. This "Dread Plateau" is a subtle aspect of the Tower that's truly fantastic. Basically, I always see the Tower in three "states:"</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong><u>STAGE ONE</u>:</strong> <strong>Safe, and everyone knows it.</strong> The Tower is in this state any time it's recently been rebuilt. You want to get out of this state as quickly as possible (the game is not called "Safe" for a reason).<u><br /> <br /> After the Tower is built at the beginning of the game</u>, offer a lot of optional, relatively insignificant pulls to players. Even if they refuse, it sets the mood and gets them into character. But, more importantly, it gives them a sense of <em>control</em> over accepting vs. refusing pulls. This beats throwing arbitrary, serious challenges at them, which makes them feel like they're in a pinball machine (save this for later <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" />). Also, you can try to trigger a player-vs-player conflict, where each player plays chicken with the Tower, alternating pulls until one backs down. This gets to a Stage 2 Tower the quickest... but it could also end up killing someone early (with potentially bruised feelings, given the PvP) if it gets out of hand.<br /> <br /> <u>After the Tower is rebuilt following a character death</u>, you have two choices, depending on where you are in the story: <strong>(1)</strong> If you aren't in an action scene, or near enough to the end of one, use the death to get the group into a low-tension situation to match the Tower: they get to their campsite, argue about what to do next, etc. <strong>(2)</strong> OR, if the Tower fell in the middle of a crazy-hectic scene, <u>DOUBLE DOWN</u>: <em>More </em>monsters arrive, <em>AND </em>your "Dead Man Walking" reveals he's been turned into one, striking from behind! Everybody pull to avoid scattering in mad panic, then pull again to maintain calm enough to act! Require 3-4 pulls to do <em>anything </em>(OFFENSE: maintain cool + get close/get weapon/aim + hit the thing + make it a telling blow; DEFENSE: react + dodge + avoid sideswipe + maintain composure)! Demanding a round of pulls from everyone, and making the situation so deadly that multiple pulls are required for almost every action, feels intense right away even with a Stage 1 Tower, and gets you to Stage 2 damn quickly. The only con here is if you have players who are slow-pullers even with a stable tower.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong><u>STAGE TWO</u>: "The Dread Plateau." </strong>This is where the Tower could be as many as 20-30 pulls away from falling, BUT all your players are getting very nervous about making pulls (which is your signal that you've moved out of Stage 1). You'll be surprised how fast you get here, and how long you can stay here, which is why the Jenga mechanic is so fantastic for Dread. This is where the game is at its best, and you should get to this stage ASAP. Use their refusals to pile on complications; ramp up the tension, and wait for someone to die OR you start to feel like you're moving into Stage 3.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong><u>STAGE THREE</u>: Death Is Imminent. </strong>This is where the players are convinced the Tower's going to fall at any moment... and you're starting to agree with them. (Yeah, it's a fuzzy line). At this point, you should be planning what you're going to do AFTER the Tower falls. Avoid starting a big climactic fight scene here, because it won't last very long before either the Tower collapses (throwing you back to Stage 1 in the middle of your endgame), OR someone pulls off an anticlimactic heroic sacrifice (which will be especially tempting now) the moment the climax begins. Ideally, you want to get to this point DURING a big climax, so that someone is finally pushed towards a heroic sacrifice that DOES feel appropriately heroic, after a few rounds of players refusing to make pulls (resulting in serious injuries and other complications).</li> </ul><p><strong>Remember: The Tower dictates the dramatic tension of your game, not you.</strong> I read this before I played, but never really "grokked" it until I ran a game. No matter how scary your scene is, if your players are staring at a Stage 1 Tower, they aren't going to be as afraid as they'd be in a fairly tame scene with a Stage <em>3 </em>Tower. You want your scenes and the Tower to line up as best you can, and the best way to do this is to be supremely flexible: cut out scenes on the fly, mix them around, have a general way to ramp up the tension that would work for any scene ("monsters attack!"), but ALSO a plan to either reset the tension, or to double down (depending on how you want to get from a Stage 1 Tower to Stage 2).</p><p></p><p>Hope that was helpful, and I realize I digressed a bit from your question, but I thought I'd take this opportunity to summarize some of the other stuff in this thread about pacing and the Tower.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Eunomiac, post: 5757792, member: 6686214"] [B]malcolypse:[/B] I'm thinking the key is to show your players how easy it is to scare the crap out of everyone: walking around behind them, playing creepy music, and being all laid-back about it is working for me. As for finding players, I've had great success strong-arming people into the game ("come on, I know you won't even play Risk, but you'll have a blast, I PROMISE!") [B]Janx:[/B] Great advice, and in fact I did alter the format a bit when I posted it. The agendas were all phrased as "YOU ACCOMPLISH YOUR AGENDA IF: <situation>", so they were clearer than the ones I posted. I do like your "action phrases" better, though, and will take your advice next time, thank you! [B]Olaf the Stout:[/B] Here are the notes I condensed from this thread and from another on the subject of judging when the Tower likely falls. Each bullet is a comment from either an experienced host or the designer, which is why they occasionally conflict (all different opinions/experiences): [LIST] [*]It seems like a 4 hour game would most often see 30 pulls and 1 death (happening around pull #25). [LIST] [*][U]DESIGNER RESPONSE[/U]: "... things get ridiculous around pull 45 ... try to go for a pull every 5 minutes for a 4 hour game ... people will be making multiple pulls, so it's okay to go a half hour without a pull and then yank six. Just make sure everything feels on pace." [/LIST] [*]"... the tower is generally good for 35-55 pulls before it falls. With beginning groups ... it'll be near the bottom of that range." [*][U]DESIGNER[/U][B]:[/B] "... it becomes nerve-wracking for me around 25 pulls. ... other, less experienced groups get nervous with as little as 12-15 pulls." [LIST] [*]USE THEIR MISCONCEPTIONS re: INSABILITY! Play up any tension about how rickety the Tower [I]appears[/I], AND about how every pull makes every future pull that much harder. [/LIST] [*]Generally only klutziness will bring it down before 20 pulls. [*]Most of the time you'll see a tower collapse in the late 20s or so. [/LIST] So, there really is a HUGE range during which the tower could possibly fall (anywhere from 20 up to nearly 60). And this range can vary a great deal even within a single game—the Tower fell twice in my first game: the first time it was somewhere in the early 20s, possibly even sooner; it then lasted until at least 45 pulls, and even then it was a heroic sacrifice that brought it down. By far the best advice, I thought, was that players tend to [I]think[/I] the Tower is about to fall LONG before it actually does, and that you shouldn't dispel this misconception, but encourage it. This "Dread Plateau" is a subtle aspect of the Tower that's truly fantastic. Basically, I always see the Tower in three "states:" [LIST] [*][B][U]STAGE ONE[/U]:[/B] [B]Safe, and everyone knows it.[/B] The Tower is in this state any time it's recently been rebuilt. You want to get out of this state as quickly as possible (the game is not called "Safe" for a reason).[U] After the Tower is built at the beginning of the game[/U], offer a lot of optional, relatively insignificant pulls to players. Even if they refuse, it sets the mood and gets them into character. But, more importantly, it gives them a sense of [I]control[/I] over accepting vs. refusing pulls. This beats throwing arbitrary, serious challenges at them, which makes them feel like they're in a pinball machine (save this for later :D). Also, you can try to trigger a player-vs-player conflict, where each player plays chicken with the Tower, alternating pulls until one backs down. This gets to a Stage 2 Tower the quickest... but it could also end up killing someone early (with potentially bruised feelings, given the PvP) if it gets out of hand. [U]After the Tower is rebuilt following a character death[/U], you have two choices, depending on where you are in the story: [B](1)[/B] If you aren't in an action scene, or near enough to the end of one, use the death to get the group into a low-tension situation to match the Tower: they get to their campsite, argue about what to do next, etc. [B](2)[/B] OR, if the Tower fell in the middle of a crazy-hectic scene, [U]DOUBLE DOWN[/U]: [I]More [/I]monsters arrive, [I]AND [/I]your "Dead Man Walking" reveals he's been turned into one, striking from behind! Everybody pull to avoid scattering in mad panic, then pull again to maintain calm enough to act! Require 3-4 pulls to do [I]anything [/I](OFFENSE: maintain cool + get close/get weapon/aim + hit the thing + make it a telling blow; DEFENSE: react + dodge + avoid sideswipe + maintain composure)! Demanding a round of pulls from everyone, and making the situation so deadly that multiple pulls are required for almost every action, feels intense right away even with a Stage 1 Tower, and gets you to Stage 2 damn quickly. The only con here is if you have players who are slow-pullers even with a stable tower. [*][B][U]STAGE TWO[/U]: "The Dread Plateau." [/B]This is where the Tower could be as many as 20-30 pulls away from falling, BUT all your players are getting very nervous about making pulls (which is your signal that you've moved out of Stage 1). You'll be surprised how fast you get here, and how long you can stay here, which is why the Jenga mechanic is so fantastic for Dread. This is where the game is at its best, and you should get to this stage ASAP. Use their refusals to pile on complications; ramp up the tension, and wait for someone to die OR you start to feel like you're moving into Stage 3. [*][B][U]STAGE THREE[/U]: Death Is Imminent. [/B]This is where the players are convinced the Tower's going to fall at any moment... and you're starting to agree with them. (Yeah, it's a fuzzy line). At this point, you should be planning what you're going to do AFTER the Tower falls. Avoid starting a big climactic fight scene here, because it won't last very long before either the Tower collapses (throwing you back to Stage 1 in the middle of your endgame), OR someone pulls off an anticlimactic heroic sacrifice (which will be especially tempting now) the moment the climax begins. Ideally, you want to get to this point DURING a big climax, so that someone is finally pushed towards a heroic sacrifice that DOES feel appropriately heroic, after a few rounds of players refusing to make pulls (resulting in serious injuries and other complications). [/LIST] [B]Remember: The Tower dictates the dramatic tension of your game, not you.[/B] I read this before I played, but never really "grokked" it until I ran a game. No matter how scary your scene is, if your players are staring at a Stage 1 Tower, they aren't going to be as afraid as they'd be in a fairly tame scene with a Stage [I]3 [/I]Tower. You want your scenes and the Tower to line up as best you can, and the best way to do this is to be supremely flexible: cut out scenes on the fly, mix them around, have a general way to ramp up the tension that would work for any scene ("monsters attack!"), but ALSO a plan to either reset the tension, or to double down (depending on how you want to get from a Stage 1 Tower to Stage 2). Hope that was helpful, and I realize I digressed a bit from your question, but I thought I'd take this opportunity to summarize some of the other stuff in this thread about pacing and the Tower. [/QUOTE]
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