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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Drifting games, genre limitations, and fruitful voids
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<blockquote data-quote="DMZ2112" data-source="post: 8935406" data-attributes="member: 78752"><p>I really hate the concept of 'Moves.' Viscerally. I don't even particularly like the idea that D&D has an Attack action with rules that make it fundamentally different than some other ability check. It smacks of restriction for the sake of restriction, and the idea of a game limiting what a PC can actually do by simply not having a defined "action" for that action kept me away from PbtA for <em>years</em>.</p><p></p><p>I finally got an opportunity to play Blades in the Dark with some folks I trusted to do it well, and that experience went a long way toward softening my attitude toward the concept of moves, particularly broad moves, but most of what you are describing here is the very core of nope.</p><p></p><p>That being said, I do really like this idea of the Fruitful Void, that the core objective of the game is something with which the game itself does not allow direct interaction, and towards which it instead expects the players to devise their own approaches.</p><p></p><p>I think BECMI and AD&D1, as written, kind of do that, weirdly. The goal is to end up with a long, successful adventuring career, but aside from a somewhat nebulous authorization for the dungeon master to make what arbitrary decisions they deem necessary to ensure the enjoyment of the players, all the game gives you for tools is a brutally fair system for simulating lethal combat and dangerous environments and the rewards for engaging both. As many have noted, the latter does not automatically feed into the former, is often at cross purposes with it, and I'd argue was a major driver of the entire "storygame" movement.</p><p></p><p>Of course, as this idea has also been at the center of a lot of contentious argument about the nature of D&D, to this day, I'm sure there's got to be a better way to handle it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DMZ2112, post: 8935406, member: 78752"] I really hate the concept of 'Moves.' Viscerally. I don't even particularly like the idea that D&D has an Attack action with rules that make it fundamentally different than some other ability check. It smacks of restriction for the sake of restriction, and the idea of a game limiting what a PC can actually do by simply not having a defined "action" for that action kept me away from PbtA for [I]years[/I]. I finally got an opportunity to play Blades in the Dark with some folks I trusted to do it well, and that experience went a long way toward softening my attitude toward the concept of moves, particularly broad moves, but most of what you are describing here is the very core of nope. That being said, I do really like this idea of the Fruitful Void, that the core objective of the game is something with which the game itself does not allow direct interaction, and towards which it instead expects the players to devise their own approaches. I think BECMI and AD&D1, as written, kind of do that, weirdly. The goal is to end up with a long, successful adventuring career, but aside from a somewhat nebulous authorization for the dungeon master to make what arbitrary decisions they deem necessary to ensure the enjoyment of the players, all the game gives you for tools is a brutally fair system for simulating lethal combat and dangerous environments and the rewards for engaging both. As many have noted, the latter does not automatically feed into the former, is often at cross purposes with it, and I'd argue was a major driver of the entire "storygame" movement. Of course, as this idea has also been at the center of a lot of contentious argument about the nature of D&D, to this day, I'm sure there's got to be a better way to handle it. [/QUOTE]
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