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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Dungeon layout, map flow and old school game design
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<blockquote data-quote="Melan" data-source="post: 2957783" data-attributes="member: 1713"><p>I feel I am sucked away from the original topic of this thread, but...</p><p></p><p></p><p>It is a question independent of good or bad design. An adventure may generally be calibrated for a certain level range, but may include challenges and rewards outside that area. For example, the upper levels Necromancer's <strong>Rappan Athuk</strong> is generally for 5th to 7th level PCs, but there are challenges like [spoiler]the Well, the archmage tomb on level three, the rakshasha[/spoiler] which are much more difficult and much more rewarding. </p><p></p><p>That, plus instead of "adventures", in the case of "old school" games, we should be speaking of environments. Adventures happen in these locations based on the risks the players are willing to take through their characters, and this is the primary way game balance is achieved instead of CR or some other game mechanism. High level areas may be immediately available (again, Rappan Athuk is a typical example), but probably not "advisable" to explore. If the environment is freeform, the PCs may play safe and go where they will meet threats and rewards at their level of competence, or play above their league for extra rewards, substituting player skill in the stead of character power. Rumors, consultation with sages, recon, sending in lower level probe teams may all be useful tools to gauge which area is dangerous and which is an acceptable challenge. [As a side note, I find these kinds of player strategies very, <em>very</em> fascinating. They were features of 1970s gaming but were eventually forgotten or superceded by other forms of game management - generally by much stricter constraints.]</p><p></p><p> </p><p>The players have chosen to play above their league, found a reward granting them additional power. If they can exploit that power cleverly, they get to keep it. But it is only logical - not to mention <em>fun</em> to a certain extent - for the DM to test them if they are worthy of it. It even has that verisimilitude stuff, to boot.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope. Some players will never find anything concealed by secret doors or otherwise secreted. Others will find small amounts. A select few will find those which are hidden by unconventional means through lateral thinking. There is no need for all treasures to be found by all groups.</p><p></p><p>But again, I think we are departing from the subject of mapping and straying into a discussion centered around "what goes in those maps". <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Melan, post: 2957783, member: 1713"] I feel I am sucked away from the original topic of this thread, but... It is a question independent of good or bad design. An adventure may generally be calibrated for a certain level range, but may include challenges and rewards outside that area. For example, the upper levels Necromancer's [B]Rappan Athuk[/B] is generally for 5th to 7th level PCs, but there are challenges like [spoiler]the Well, the archmage tomb on level three, the rakshasha[/spoiler] which are much more difficult and much more rewarding. That, plus instead of "adventures", in the case of "old school" games, we should be speaking of environments. Adventures happen in these locations based on the risks the players are willing to take through their characters, and this is the primary way game balance is achieved instead of CR or some other game mechanism. High level areas may be immediately available (again, Rappan Athuk is a typical example), but probably not "advisable" to explore. If the environment is freeform, the PCs may play safe and go where they will meet threats and rewards at their level of competence, or play above their league for extra rewards, substituting player skill in the stead of character power. Rumors, consultation with sages, recon, sending in lower level probe teams may all be useful tools to gauge which area is dangerous and which is an acceptable challenge. [As a side note, I find these kinds of player strategies very, [I]very[/I] fascinating. They were features of 1970s gaming but were eventually forgotten or superceded by other forms of game management - generally by much stricter constraints.] The players have chosen to play above their league, found a reward granting them additional power. If they can exploit that power cleverly, they get to keep it. But it is only logical - not to mention [I]fun[/I] to a certain extent - for the DM to test them if they are worthy of it. It even has that verisimilitude stuff, to boot. Nope. Some players will never find anything concealed by secret doors or otherwise secreted. Others will find small amounts. A select few will find those which are hidden by unconventional means through lateral thinking. There is no need for all treasures to be found by all groups. But again, I think we are departing from the subject of mapping and straying into a discussion centered around "what goes in those maps". ;) [/QUOTE]
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