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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Dungeon layout, map flow and old school game design
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<blockquote data-quote="riprock" data-source="post: 2958036" data-attributes="member: 42506"><p>My gaming experience is heavily skewed by long association with one large group, so I may be speaking from a non-representative sample.</p><p></p><p>But ... in my experience most gamers don't *like* having to search and loot. Most folks I've played with hate the notion that there might be hidden treasure and they might be missing vital treasure if they don't search every nook and cranny.</p><p></p><p>I think the early groups started a lot of memes, and some of them worked wonderfully. I'm sure if Gygax or Arneson were running the game, they could make searching fun. Heck, the old module descriptions are often very well written, with neat room quirks to make people *want* to search. </p><p></p><p>However, this can degenerate with less skilled DMs into what computer gamers call a "pixel hunt." Searching becomes like trailing a mouse pointer over a computer screen, trying to find the one pixel which will make it highlight.</p><p></p><p>When I read my AD&D DMG, as I frequently do from sheer nostalgia, I run across passages that go something like, "Your players kill two ogres and expect 2,000 G.P. in neat little sacks. Instead, give them 2,000 G.P. of highly encumbering loot like well-polished armor, fragile statues, and more copper than they can carry. If they don't get it all in one trip, other monsters will come and grab it."</p><p></p><p>I'm sure Gygax could have made that a lot of fun in any module. Some modules are set up so that the players have a very convenient base guarded by Lawful Good folks who can be trusted to guard whatever the players bring. Cycling from dungeon to home base *can* be fun. But I, and most folks I game with, have a lot of trouble making that fun. We tend to de-emphasize looting, just as we de-emphasized traps until D&D 3.0 suggested awarding experience for traps located and disarmed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="riprock, post: 2958036, member: 42506"] My gaming experience is heavily skewed by long association with one large group, so I may be speaking from a non-representative sample. But ... in my experience most gamers don't *like* having to search and loot. Most folks I've played with hate the notion that there might be hidden treasure and they might be missing vital treasure if they don't search every nook and cranny. I think the early groups started a lot of memes, and some of them worked wonderfully. I'm sure if Gygax or Arneson were running the game, they could make searching fun. Heck, the old module descriptions are often very well written, with neat room quirks to make people *want* to search. However, this can degenerate with less skilled DMs into what computer gamers call a "pixel hunt." Searching becomes like trailing a mouse pointer over a computer screen, trying to find the one pixel which will make it highlight. When I read my AD&D DMG, as I frequently do from sheer nostalgia, I run across passages that go something like, "Your players kill two ogres and expect 2,000 G.P. in neat little sacks. Instead, give them 2,000 G.P. of highly encumbering loot like well-polished armor, fragile statues, and more copper than they can carry. If they don't get it all in one trip, other monsters will come and grab it." I'm sure Gygax could have made that a lot of fun in any module. Some modules are set up so that the players have a very convenient base guarded by Lawful Good folks who can be trusted to guard whatever the players bring. Cycling from dungeon to home base *can* be fun. But I, and most folks I game with, have a lot of trouble making that fun. We tend to de-emphasize looting, just as we de-emphasized traps until D&D 3.0 suggested awarding experience for traps located and disarmed. [/QUOTE]
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