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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Dwarven Battlerager Build
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<blockquote data-quote="the_move" data-source="post: 6873437" data-attributes="member: 6804624"><p>Your example is too abstract for a comparison. Also you are comparing a feature to a subclass. An Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster has far less spell slots than a Wizard, not to mention no Arcane Recovery, yet would you advise him also not to take any risk like casting save or suck spells? This game is based on luck, btw. Thanks for completely ignoring any conscutive points of my argument, most of them being more significant regarding that issue than the first two.</p><p></p><p>Now looking at the maneuvers, yes you can decide to place a Menacing Attack or a Tripping Attack after you hit your target, but apart from an effect, which you can easily apply anyway with other methods (grapple/prone, reckless) you get an additional d6 (4) damage to your strike. Gamechanging...</p><p></p><p>Precision Strike is a one-round bless, which is somewhat nice, but again it's significance is lowered by the fact, that you can very often just apply advantage, which is in most regards the better deal.</p><p>Riposte might have some requirements, primarily the enemy has to miss, you have to use a reaction, and you have to hit. This might look, like it is too situational. That might be even true in some events.</p><p></p><p>But what you should not ignore is that the barbarian, battlerager or not, has a set of abilities, which enable him to improve the conditions greatly for safely connecting a riposte. Using recklessness isn't exactly one of them, since with an AC 16 and the enemy having advantage you will most likely not be missed. </p><p></p><p>Grapple and Prone on the other hand is ideal to set the stage. While being enraged you have advantage on your strength checks, so bringing your target into those two conditions won't be that difficult. </p><p>Now your target has two options. Either escape your grab, which will cost him his action and is far from being guaranteed to succeed. Or he simply attacks, but with disadvantage. Both options are suboptimal to him, but while he will not affect you in any way with an escape attempt - successful or not - attacks done with disadvantage might still hit and damage you. So most of the time your DM might choose the attack action. He will most certainly do so if a second creature is attacking you, since the chances for just bringing you to 0 in order to escape the grapple are increased by having both creatures just attacking.</p><p></p><p>This is, where Riposte comes into play. With Riposte you can use this very situation to place an additional strike at your target as punishment for not trying to escape, but instead attempting to damage you while grappling. So with him doing his strikes with disadvantage even with a quite mediocre AC of 16 there is a good chance he will miss. </p><p></p><p>You can seize that opportunity to strike him with advantage as a reaction. An enraged str 18 barb with a battleaxe would deal d8+d6+6 (14) damage. Having advantage also implies you have an increased chance of scoring a natural 20 and a high chance to negate a natural 1. And dealing significant damage with that reaction might also help in finishing off your grappled target sooner, so you can pick on a new target.</p><p></p><p>A battlerager having a 4th attack within one round in addition to his regular 3 (extra attack, bonus action attack) once per (short) rest isn't ill posed. For example a war cleric's War Priest feat. By your standards that also appears to be meager at first glance, but it definately has it's uses.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="the_move, post: 6873437, member: 6804624"] Your example is too abstract for a comparison. Also you are comparing a feature to a subclass. An Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster has far less spell slots than a Wizard, not to mention no Arcane Recovery, yet would you advise him also not to take any risk like casting save or suck spells? This game is based on luck, btw. Thanks for completely ignoring any conscutive points of my argument, most of them being more significant regarding that issue than the first two. Now looking at the maneuvers, yes you can decide to place a Menacing Attack or a Tripping Attack after you hit your target, but apart from an effect, which you can easily apply anyway with other methods (grapple/prone, reckless) you get an additional d6 (4) damage to your strike. Gamechanging... Precision Strike is a one-round bless, which is somewhat nice, but again it's significance is lowered by the fact, that you can very often just apply advantage, which is in most regards the better deal. Riposte might have some requirements, primarily the enemy has to miss, you have to use a reaction, and you have to hit. This might look, like it is too situational. That might be even true in some events. But what you should not ignore is that the barbarian, battlerager or not, has a set of abilities, which enable him to improve the conditions greatly for safely connecting a riposte. Using recklessness isn't exactly one of them, since with an AC 16 and the enemy having advantage you will most likely not be missed. Grapple and Prone on the other hand is ideal to set the stage. While being enraged you have advantage on your strength checks, so bringing your target into those two conditions won't be that difficult. Now your target has two options. Either escape your grab, which will cost him his action and is far from being guaranteed to succeed. Or he simply attacks, but with disadvantage. Both options are suboptimal to him, but while he will not affect you in any way with an escape attempt - successful or not - attacks done with disadvantage might still hit and damage you. So most of the time your DM might choose the attack action. He will most certainly do so if a second creature is attacking you, since the chances for just bringing you to 0 in order to escape the grapple are increased by having both creatures just attacking. This is, where Riposte comes into play. With Riposte you can use this very situation to place an additional strike at your target as punishment for not trying to escape, but instead attempting to damage you while grappling. So with him doing his strikes with disadvantage even with a quite mediocre AC of 16 there is a good chance he will miss. You can seize that opportunity to strike him with advantage as a reaction. An enraged str 18 barb with a battleaxe would deal d8+d6+6 (14) damage. Having advantage also implies you have an increased chance of scoring a natural 20 and a high chance to negate a natural 1. And dealing significant damage with that reaction might also help in finishing off your grappled target sooner, so you can pick on a new target. A battlerager having a 4th attack within one round in addition to his regular 3 (extra attack, bonus action attack) once per (short) rest isn't ill posed. For example a war cleric's War Priest feat. By your standards that also appears to be meager at first glance, but it definately has it's uses. [/QUOTE]
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