Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
E6 in 5e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 7254216" data-attributes="member: 6786252"><p>Yeesh. I wonder where that reddit poster fits onto the Fighter v. Wizard debate. >.< Making E6 all about blaming spellcasters is just annoying. No, its not set at level 6 because of 4+ spells. </p><p></p><p>E6 was devised in such a way that you can play in the "sweet spot" of 3rd edition leveling, before numbers got completely gonzo. This includes the number of attacks made, spells cast, your save proficencies, and skills going everywhere. A true E6 needs to take into account things like feats on warriors, sneak attack being so outpaced, unreasonably large HP pools, etc. Level 6 was chosen because it was roughly the start of the sweet spot, and let you grow your character with "feats" (it should be more like epic boons in 5e, as per page 231-2 of the DMG). Well, toned down, but same idea. </p><p></p><p>Thanks to the Reddit writers' proposal, this sort of gameplay is going to vastly favor Warrior type characters (specifically the Fighter, Barbarian and Paladin), as most of these classes will continue to grow in power thanks to a weaponry-bais in feats. </p><p></p><p>Spellcasters are especially problematic. Turning level 4+ spells into rituals isn't going to solve anything, as the overwhelming majority of level 4+ spells are combat oriented; turning every spell into a 10 minute pause is effectively going to either effectively remove them from play, or favor ones that take time anyways, like the Conjure spells. This effectively creates the situation where any of the spellcaster types effectively caps in power at E6 and cannot grow. You become static. And, to put it simply, that's BORING. At best, you raise your ASI and nothing else ever again. +1s, while handy, are boring. I feel like this also applies to the rogue; very few feats that apply to the rogue, resulting in a static character. I feel like we hurt the Monk as well - ki points are kinda important, and capping at 6 still leaves you hungry. </p><p></p><p>And lets talk a bit about the cleric for a tic. With this rule, you'll never get divine strike. While probably not as big of a deal, I think its going to be something that is just endemic of a larger issue - if E6 is going to be translated to 5e, we need to develop a way to develop subclass abilities. </p><p></p><p>Feats were a big deal in 3e. They applied to everyone, and could do a lot of things with them. You could raise your attack bonus, your skills, your magical abilities, gain new talents. In 5e, there's only a limited number of feats. Even the original E6 had feats that allowed growth in various ways to make up for the lack of level growth for those that needed it. </p><p></p><p>This anti-spellcaster-rant version is just badly done, without giving other aspects of gameplay deeper thought. The point of E6 is that you cap certain aspects of the game, while still allowing characters to grow in power to reflect a level 8 or even level 10 character in time, letting you extend the "sweet spot" of the game. Unlike 3e, though, feats aren't reflective of growing in power for many classes, and using that as a bandaid is nothing more than a short sighted kludge.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mephista, post: 7254216, member: 6786252"] Yeesh. I wonder where that reddit poster fits onto the Fighter v. Wizard debate. >.< Making E6 all about blaming spellcasters is just annoying. No, its not set at level 6 because of 4+ spells. E6 was devised in such a way that you can play in the "sweet spot" of 3rd edition leveling, before numbers got completely gonzo. This includes the number of attacks made, spells cast, your save proficencies, and skills going everywhere. A true E6 needs to take into account things like feats on warriors, sneak attack being so outpaced, unreasonably large HP pools, etc. Level 6 was chosen because it was roughly the start of the sweet spot, and let you grow your character with "feats" (it should be more like epic boons in 5e, as per page 231-2 of the DMG). Well, toned down, but same idea. Thanks to the Reddit writers' proposal, this sort of gameplay is going to vastly favor Warrior type characters (specifically the Fighter, Barbarian and Paladin), as most of these classes will continue to grow in power thanks to a weaponry-bais in feats. Spellcasters are especially problematic. Turning level 4+ spells into rituals isn't going to solve anything, as the overwhelming majority of level 4+ spells are combat oriented; turning every spell into a 10 minute pause is effectively going to either effectively remove them from play, or favor ones that take time anyways, like the Conjure spells. This effectively creates the situation where any of the spellcaster types effectively caps in power at E6 and cannot grow. You become static. And, to put it simply, that's BORING. At best, you raise your ASI and nothing else ever again. +1s, while handy, are boring. I feel like this also applies to the rogue; very few feats that apply to the rogue, resulting in a static character. I feel like we hurt the Monk as well - ki points are kinda important, and capping at 6 still leaves you hungry. And lets talk a bit about the cleric for a tic. With this rule, you'll never get divine strike. While probably not as big of a deal, I think its going to be something that is just endemic of a larger issue - if E6 is going to be translated to 5e, we need to develop a way to develop subclass abilities. Feats were a big deal in 3e. They applied to everyone, and could do a lot of things with them. You could raise your attack bonus, your skills, your magical abilities, gain new talents. In 5e, there's only a limited number of feats. Even the original E6 had feats that allowed growth in various ways to make up for the lack of level growth for those that needed it. This anti-spellcaster-rant version is just badly done, without giving other aspects of gameplay deeper thought. The point of E6 is that you cap certain aspects of the game, while still allowing characters to grow in power to reflect a level 8 or even level 10 character in time, letting you extend the "sweet spot" of the game. Unlike 3e, though, feats aren't reflective of growing in power for many classes, and using that as a bandaid is nothing more than a short sighted kludge. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
E6 in 5e
Top