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<blockquote data-quote="Sepulchrave II" data-source="post: 309345" data-attributes="member: 4303"><p>That was the basis for my assumption that the mitigating factors are applied <em>before</em> the x5 for permanency: the increase in radius (20 ft. to 1000 ft., +196 DC) would mean that the Spellcraft DC for this would be 1258 otherwise.</p><p></p><p>If the mitigators are applied <strong>before</strong> the adjustment for permanency, you get (21 +2 +196 +8 +19 +60 -18 -100 -154) x5 = 170, which is the DC for the spell.</p><p></p><p>Same goes for <em>Origin of Species: Achaierai</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>That, I do agree with. Intuitively, it makes much more sense.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm afraid that the system is basically shot.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think both, and neither. A summoned creature is really there to the extent that it has a memory of what transpires (e.g. Mialee's Formians, or Demons being reluctant to Summon others of their kind because it leaves them beholden), but it is somehow lacking the completeness(?) of a called creature. Its "vital essence," maybe, is missing. This would explain its temporary soujourn on the Prime, and the fact that if it is killed, it is not permanently destroyed.</p><p></p><p>Of course, with <em>Permanent</em> summonings, this bates the question "so where is the creature's essence?" Who knows? Perhaps wizards have mindless arguments ad nauseum about this kind of thing...</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>I can't speak for others, but I've always felt that absolutely <em>anything</em> is possible in the Far Realms. Maybe it is the <em>Wizard</em> who determines the form that these things take, through his force of Will.</p><p></p><p>But I like the mysterious, inexplicable stuff, and I might be talking out of my arse.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sepulchrave II, post: 309345, member: 4303"] That was the basis for my assumption that the mitigating factors are applied [I]before[/I] the x5 for permanency: the increase in radius (20 ft. to 1000 ft., +196 DC) would mean that the Spellcraft DC for this would be 1258 otherwise. If the mitigators are applied [B]before[/B] the adjustment for permanency, you get (21 +2 +196 +8 +19 +60 -18 -100 -154) x5 = 170, which is the DC for the spell. Same goes for [I]Origin of Species: Achaierai[/I]. That, I do agree with. Intuitively, it makes much more sense. I'm afraid that the system is basically shot. I think both, and neither. A summoned creature is really there to the extent that it has a memory of what transpires (e.g. Mialee's Formians, or Demons being reluctant to Summon others of their kind because it leaves them beholden), but it is somehow lacking the completeness(?) of a called creature. Its "vital essence," maybe, is missing. This would explain its temporary soujourn on the Prime, and the fact that if it is killed, it is not permanently destroyed. Of course, with [I]Permanent[/I] summonings, this bates the question "so where is the creature's essence?" Who knows? Perhaps wizards have mindless arguments ad nauseum about this kind of thing... I can't speak for others, but I've always felt that absolutely [I]anything[/I] is possible in the Far Realms. Maybe it is the [I]Wizard[/I] who determines the form that these things take, through his force of Will. But I like the mysterious, inexplicable stuff, and I might be talking out of my arse. [/QUOTE]
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