Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Eclipse Phase: Sexy
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4905736" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Man, once I get my law degree in intellectual property, this discussion will be a lot easier. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Understandable. But I don't see anyone telling you that you're going to be <em>shamed</em> into buying EP. My main point is that it would be smart of you to contribute to the thing that brings you joy if you want it to bring you more joy. I'm not making a moral case as much as I am an "enlightened self-interest" kind of case. If you just want to get the game, my disappointment won't come about because secretly everyone wants you to pay, but because if you contribute something, things will be better.</p><p></p><p>I'm not exactly sure about Shem's "cool" comment, but that wasn't even raised before your first post, which already seemed kind of on the defensive about it.</p><p></p><p>You don't need to be defensive, you just need to realize that there's an externalized cost to this free pdf that you might not be paying. You might pay it indirectly in the form of "no new EP supplements" at some point in the future. You might not -- your sale might not matter to them if they can get enough people who like the game talking about it. If you run a game with 4 other people, and two of them buy the book because they love it, you've made them two sales by giving away one book, and I'm sure they'd be happy with that arrangement.</p><p></p><p>There's no shame in grabbing apples from a tree that offers them, but if you don't take care of that tree or plant more seeds, you've got an externalized cost that results in you not getting any more apples.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, but I think offering people who wanted free copies of the book was part of the plan all along. It certainly wasn't an unintended side-effect. The theory generally goes that if you hit the largest market available (which free helps you do), some portion of that market will want to pay for the good stuff. Even if it's only 5% of your market, if the market is big enough, that can be quite a take-home. And for a small publisher, I'm sure they don't need that huge of a market or that big of a percentage to take home a tidy profit.</p><p></p><p>I don't think this is a "side effect." </p><p></p><p>That doesn't mean that you should just take a free copy and run, though. It's better <em>for you</em> if you contribute something back, because then you'll keep getting stuff back. If you're interested enough to find and download it, you're probably interested enough to (for instance) publish your "Cadfan's Eclipse Phase House Rules Document" in a PDF on ENWorld's Non-D&D discussion boards, no? From the former, you get a game, from the latter, you get <em>more game</em>.</p><p></p><p>You don't have to, but why wouldn't you want to?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, you're misaprehending the argument. I'm sure they knew exactly what they were doing, and are totally fine with you getting a free copy. I don't particularly mind it, either. I don't want everyone to pay to own the book if they really want the book, but can't spare the dough. </p><p></p><p>I want you to think about the ramifications of your actions, though. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> I want you to know that if you give nothing back, you're potentially hurting yourself in the long run. </p><p></p><p>If you're comfortable with that, then <em>that's your cost</em>. You've paid for it by taking the risk of having less cool stuff in the future, hoping that enough other people will pay for it to support your non-purchase. You've essentially socialized your purchase, redistributing the cost amongst everyone who DID buy a copy. In a way, Shem and Clueless and everyone else at GenCon who got a copy, bought you your copy. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> (This is the same way going DDI-only works, too. Though you pay a monthly fee, content is derived from the published books, so those who buy the publish books subsidies your database access to a large degree. Your $10 might pay for the guy they hired to program it and the interns that enter data, and might not show a profit for a few years.)</p><p></p><p>If you're not comfortable with that scenario -- and, seeing how defensive you were before anyone said anything about what you should or should not do, and how you keep acting like you're being guilt-tripped into a purchase back-door-style, evidence may suggest that you're not entirely comfortable with that -- then give something back. Take the time to rip your house rules to PDF and tack on the CC stuff. Maybe keep a story hour (I would be very interested to hear how this game plays at the table, for one!). CC publish what quests you send the PC's on, or their character sheets. Maybe even buy a copy. </p><p></p><p>But the decision isn't that of Posthuman, or of me, or of anyone who bought the book.</p><p></p><p>The only person who can decide what they want to contribute to the game is <em>you</em>. </p><p></p><p>You don't have to, but I don't think I fully understand why you wouldn't want to.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not <em>quite</em> so utopian, though I do tend to think that the current copyright system in a lot of the world has outlived its original intent of encouraging new artwork, and that CC goes a long way toward helping that, while still providing a reason for an informed and educated consumer to actually purchase the product itself. It's use in a game book is interesting since a lot of a game book's text is, by the nature of the book, not protected. I think what EP has done here that is noteworthy is create a transhumanist <em>setting</em> that is basically free to use and re-use as long as you tell everyone where you got it from. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> EP seems to be a very literary game, which can lead to some very interesting stories in their world.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4905736, member: 2067"] Man, once I get my law degree in intellectual property, this discussion will be a lot easier. ;) Understandable. But I don't see anyone telling you that you're going to be [I]shamed[/I] into buying EP. My main point is that it would be smart of you to contribute to the thing that brings you joy if you want it to bring you more joy. I'm not making a moral case as much as I am an "enlightened self-interest" kind of case. If you just want to get the game, my disappointment won't come about because secretly everyone wants you to pay, but because if you contribute something, things will be better. I'm not exactly sure about Shem's "cool" comment, but that wasn't even raised before your first post, which already seemed kind of on the defensive about it. You don't need to be defensive, you just need to realize that there's an externalized cost to this free pdf that you might not be paying. You might pay it indirectly in the form of "no new EP supplements" at some point in the future. You might not -- your sale might not matter to them if they can get enough people who like the game talking about it. If you run a game with 4 other people, and two of them buy the book because they love it, you've made them two sales by giving away one book, and I'm sure they'd be happy with that arrangement. There's no shame in grabbing apples from a tree that offers them, but if you don't take care of that tree or plant more seeds, you've got an externalized cost that results in you not getting any more apples. Yeah, but I think offering people who wanted free copies of the book was part of the plan all along. It certainly wasn't an unintended side-effect. The theory generally goes that if you hit the largest market available (which free helps you do), some portion of that market will want to pay for the good stuff. Even if it's only 5% of your market, if the market is big enough, that can be quite a take-home. And for a small publisher, I'm sure they don't need that huge of a market or that big of a percentage to take home a tidy profit. I don't think this is a "side effect." That doesn't mean that you should just take a free copy and run, though. It's better [I]for you[/I] if you contribute something back, because then you'll keep getting stuff back. If you're interested enough to find and download it, you're probably interested enough to (for instance) publish your "Cadfan's Eclipse Phase House Rules Document" in a PDF on ENWorld's Non-D&D discussion boards, no? From the former, you get a game, from the latter, you get [I]more game[/I]. You don't have to, but why wouldn't you want to? No, you're misaprehending the argument. I'm sure they knew exactly what they were doing, and are totally fine with you getting a free copy. I don't particularly mind it, either. I don't want everyone to pay to own the book if they really want the book, but can't spare the dough. I want you to think about the ramifications of your actions, though. ;) I want you to know that if you give nothing back, you're potentially hurting yourself in the long run. If you're comfortable with that, then [I]that's your cost[/I]. You've paid for it by taking the risk of having less cool stuff in the future, hoping that enough other people will pay for it to support your non-purchase. You've essentially socialized your purchase, redistributing the cost amongst everyone who DID buy a copy. In a way, Shem and Clueless and everyone else at GenCon who got a copy, bought you your copy. ;) (This is the same way going DDI-only works, too. Though you pay a monthly fee, content is derived from the published books, so those who buy the publish books subsidies your database access to a large degree. Your $10 might pay for the guy they hired to program it and the interns that enter data, and might not show a profit for a few years.) If you're not comfortable with that scenario -- and, seeing how defensive you were before anyone said anything about what you should or should not do, and how you keep acting like you're being guilt-tripped into a purchase back-door-style, evidence may suggest that you're not entirely comfortable with that -- then give something back. Take the time to rip your house rules to PDF and tack on the CC stuff. Maybe keep a story hour (I would be very interested to hear how this game plays at the table, for one!). CC publish what quests you send the PC's on, or their character sheets. Maybe even buy a copy. But the decision isn't that of Posthuman, or of me, or of anyone who bought the book. The only person who can decide what they want to contribute to the game is [I]you[/I]. You don't have to, but I don't think I fully understand why you wouldn't want to. I'm not [I]quite[/I] so utopian, though I do tend to think that the current copyright system in a lot of the world has outlived its original intent of encouraging new artwork, and that CC goes a long way toward helping that, while still providing a reason for an informed and educated consumer to actually purchase the product itself. It's use in a game book is interesting since a lot of a game book's text is, by the nature of the book, not protected. I think what EP has done here that is noteworthy is create a transhumanist [I]setting[/I] that is basically free to use and re-use as long as you tell everyone where you got it from. ;) EP seems to be a very literary game, which can lead to some very interesting stories in their world. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Eclipse Phase: Sexy
Top