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<blockquote data-quote="Erekose13" data-source="post: 4443431" data-attributes="member: 3387"><p>I'm ready to vote on economics (Easy) but magic items is harder. I've been on both sides of the argument in LEW where no controls have been put in place. I had a 4th level character who couldn't afford masterwork armor let alone a better sword. And I've had an 10th level character who can literally make money if he needs it and has been rewarded well in game. At last count (and it has been a while) he was well a head of the curve in terms of the 3.5DMG.</p><p></p><p>So for L4E I'm not convinced of any of the three proposed methods.</p><p>Method 1 - Leaving it all up to the DM and group. This is the method that LEW and LEB both use. It creates inbalance, but with 4e magic items mean less than they did in 3.5. Inbalance is not as big an issue in 4e. The only items that characters NEED to have to stay with the curve is their +x weapon/implement, armor, and cloak/neck thing. </p><p></p><p>Method 2 - Of the two balancing methods I prefer this one because a DM who creates an adventure based on the wealth packets in the DMG may have plans to balance things by the end of the adventure and not necessarily as characters advance in levels. The weakness is that it creates an artificial wealth distribution system not based on reward. If my character ends up at the end of the adventure disadvantaged based on in-game decisions then the DM and/or judge has to give me something to balance my character? That just smarts of metagaming and brakes the verisimilitude of the living world for me.</p><p></p><p>Method 3 - As mentioned above at time of leveling puts more work on the DMs to balance treasure packets timed to character advancement which is an incredible amount of work. It also has the same metagame issue as the above method.</p><p></p><p>Alright so I've spoken about the three proposed mechnics, time for a couple of my own I guess.</p><p></p><p>Method 4 - Removing item based plusses and handing them out in a chart.</p><p>The DMG mentions that items are not required, but that the level based suggestions on when a character should possess a +x weapon/armor/neck item are built into the math of the system. We could use the suggestions in there to remove those plusses from magic items and just assign them to characters as part of advancement. We are then left to hand out items based on DM whim since they mean little to the math of the system now. The drawback of this system is that it changes a significant amount of the content in the PHB (the magic items section). </p><p></p><p>Method 5 - Post Adventuring plus balancing.</p><p>In this method the only balancing done is the bring characters up to the math required for the system to work. We use the DMG to advance the items already in the player's possession if they are behind the curve. So a character with a +1 wand at the end of an adventure who by the system should have at least a +2 weapon/implement at that level automatically has the wand increase in power. All other magic items are handed out at DM whim based on the treasure packet system, including plus based items. This system has less impact on verisimilitude and metagaming, but it is still present; especially in the case of players metagaming treasure splits and taking non-plus items because they know that their measily lower level plus item will automatically be increased afterwards.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Erekose13, post: 4443431, member: 3387"] I'm ready to vote on economics (Easy) but magic items is harder. I've been on both sides of the argument in LEW where no controls have been put in place. I had a 4th level character who couldn't afford masterwork armor let alone a better sword. And I've had an 10th level character who can literally make money if he needs it and has been rewarded well in game. At last count (and it has been a while) he was well a head of the curve in terms of the 3.5DMG. So for L4E I'm not convinced of any of the three proposed methods. Method 1 - Leaving it all up to the DM and group. This is the method that LEW and LEB both use. It creates inbalance, but with 4e magic items mean less than they did in 3.5. Inbalance is not as big an issue in 4e. The only items that characters NEED to have to stay with the curve is their +x weapon/implement, armor, and cloak/neck thing. Method 2 - Of the two balancing methods I prefer this one because a DM who creates an adventure based on the wealth packets in the DMG may have plans to balance things by the end of the adventure and not necessarily as characters advance in levels. The weakness is that it creates an artificial wealth distribution system not based on reward. If my character ends up at the end of the adventure disadvantaged based on in-game decisions then the DM and/or judge has to give me something to balance my character? That just smarts of metagaming and brakes the verisimilitude of the living world for me. Method 3 - As mentioned above at time of leveling puts more work on the DMs to balance treasure packets timed to character advancement which is an incredible amount of work. It also has the same metagame issue as the above method. Alright so I've spoken about the three proposed mechnics, time for a couple of my own I guess. Method 4 - Removing item based plusses and handing them out in a chart. The DMG mentions that items are not required, but that the level based suggestions on when a character should possess a +x weapon/armor/neck item are built into the math of the system. We could use the suggestions in there to remove those plusses from magic items and just assign them to characters as part of advancement. We are then left to hand out items based on DM whim since they mean little to the math of the system now. The drawback of this system is that it changes a significant amount of the content in the PHB (the magic items section). Method 5 - Post Adventuring plus balancing. In this method the only balancing done is the bring characters up to the math required for the system to work. We use the DMG to advance the items already in the player's possession if they are behind the curve. So a character with a +1 wand at the end of an adventure who by the system should have at least a +2 weapon/implement at that level automatically has the wand increase in power. All other magic items are handed out at DM whim based on the treasure packet system, including plus based items. This system has less impact on verisimilitude and metagaming, but it is still present; especially in the case of players metagaming treasure splits and taking non-plus items because they know that their measily lower level plus item will automatically be increased afterwards. [/QUOTE]
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