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<blockquote data-quote="Loonook" data-source="post: 5904211" data-attributes="member: 1861"><p>So I've been thinking due to a <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/321731-famine-world-4.html" target="_blank">few</a> <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/322661-value-copper-piece.html" target="_blank">threads</a> about the actual intrinsic value of life for a humanoid in D&D versus a human being in our current time. </p><p></p><p>From the age of adulthood (15 per 3.x PHB Table 6-4) to the maximum age range (110) a human unskilled laborer who never adventurers and just subsists earns 3467.5 GP. The average life span of a peasant in the Middle Ages would be between 30-45, with lowest lifetime earnings between 540 gp - 1080 gp.</p><p></p><p>Overall if you survive to ages below you have a Net Worth of (includes costs of meager living 24 gp/yr.):</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">30: 180</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">35: 240</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">40: 300</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">45: 360</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">50: 420</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">55: 480.</li> </ul><p>...</p><p></p><p></p><p>The Soldier, from our previous thread (gaining a level at 19, 27, 39 due to grinding CR 1 encounters over his career at a rate of three per year... then kind of peter out...) would gain (6 GP/level/mo), figuring a meager lifestyle (2 GP/mo) as he is being provided a billet:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">19: 192.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">20: 312</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">25: 912.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">27: 1152.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">30: 1512.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">39: 3456.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">40: 3648.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">50: 5568.</li> </ul><p>...</p><p></p><p>Probably 50 puts him at the 'old man' stage and you may be seeing this Watchman retiring, perhaps earning a pension at half of his ending wage.</p><p></p><p>Our longsword weaponmith, with a bit of continuing education and adventuring (1 CR 1 encounter every year) would have the same type of 'funds increases' if he makes longswords for the entirety of his career with payment of his 5 apprentices and maintenance/rental fees and a Common Lodging (45 GP/mo).</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">16: 1104.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">20: 2738.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">25: 6612</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">29: 11365</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">30: 12660 (Here's where I would personally stop going to the field <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> )</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">40: 25674.</li> </ul><p>...</p><p></p><p>These are raw amounts after payments for the Smith and does not include purchasing additional equipment and additional investments. A Smith who makes it into his 40s is a lucky man, as the damage to the body by the forge and possible forging accidents would probably force most men into the background before this point. The current rate figures unskilled apprentices as listed before for basic Aid checks. I would also say that most smiths have additional fees, taxes, charges, etc. of at least 10-15%.</p><p></p><p>As we can see there is an pretty wide range of possible wealth over a lifespan, just as you would see in our own society... And this is just among three types (Soldier, Weaponsmith, and Unskilled Laborer). </p><p></p><p>As you can see the Soldier or Smith can make a nice profit, enough to live well in their billets or personal lodgings. The Smith could afford his own forge pretty quickly into his career, and get things done. </p><p></p><p>So we have a baseline for our services. The average D&D peasant, who lives to the ripe age of 50 is worth 1260 GP. In real world currency we have an unskilled life's wages being worth around $147420 (with a GP worth a base of $117 and some change)... Meaning a year of peasant life sits at around $4212.</p><p></p><p>The average value of a <a href="http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1808049,00.html" target="_blank">year of quality life </a> in the US is around $50,000, or 427 GP. The study cited in this article from Stanford Economists ca. 2008 puts the value of a 'good year' at 1102.56 GP. In these terms the Blacksmith is sitting at a "value of life" just a little above the Stanford figure for a "good year", and a 6th level soldier has a quality of life a little better than the average value of life for a US citizen per insurance companies.</p><p></p><p>A PC classed character of level 1 is just below the 6th level Soldier for the year, and a 4th level adventurer is at about the same VoL as a Blacksmith.</p><p></p><p>But what exactly does VoL mean? This is the amount that a continued year of existence... Would the prevention of death be worthwhile... So again, these numbers show what an individual's life is worth but what is a good D&D background for value of life be? In a world of magic curing disease and healing injury what would be a good baseline?</p><p></p><p>I believe the best baseline would be something that D&D has akin to such a treatment. Something that a human in D&D can catch, that is consistently going to devalue their life and lead to death if untreated, and how much damage that effect will cost. </p><p></p><p>----</p><p></p><p>Let us look at three common issues that would lower quality and value of life that can be dealt with in D&D:</p><p></p><p>Emergency Care</p><p>Magical Illness/Curse (Mummy Rot)</p><p>Loss of Limb</p><p>Unexpected Death (Body Intact)</p><p>Unexpected Death (Body Dispersed)</p><p>Unexpected Death (Body Unrecovered)</p><p></p><p>So how much does it cost to 'fix' these issues?</p><p></p><p>Emergency Care (CLW to Stabilize injury): 10 GP ($1170)</p><p>Mummy Rot (first time success minimum cost): 300 GP ($35,100)</p><p>Loss of Limb (Regeneration): 910 GP ($106,470)</p><p>Unexpected Death (Body Intact) [Raise Dead]: 5400 GP ($631,800)</p><p>UD (BD) [Resurrection]: 10910 ($1,276,470)</p><p>UD (BU) [True Resurrection]: 26530 ($3,104,010)</p><p></p><p>Emergency Care really only applies to an individual who has no time to heal, and in the case that someone can help to stabilize but needs further assistance. </p><p></p><p>Expensive, yes? If we consider 20% of their lifetime net worth being an appropriate savings for extreme medical issues, a Guard would be able to have his limb repaired as a 'retirement present'. A peasant would be far beyond the ability to be cured of the Rot, while a Smith would, at 40, be able to make an expenditure to Raise themselves. </p><p></p><p>But what about Resurrection? Ahh... That is where it gets interesting <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />.</p><p></p><p>Welcome to Compound Interest.</p><p></p><p>If the Smith pays, starting at his 16th year, 1/10 of his beginning net income (110.40 GP), invests it into the Guild or Church coffers, and continues until the age of 40, he would have the money for a Resurrection at a 4% interest rate by the age of 53. </p><p></p><p>Why do I care about Resurrection specifically? Because Resurrection creates one of the most interesting cases in D&D healing in one of my games: The Merchants of the City of Saria.</p><p></p><p>The Merchants of Saria kept their Patriarchs about for the purposes of crisis. During the Elder Year (usually once every 40 years) the Elders of Saria would come back to life for a single year to drive forth the economy, then return to the dead. </p><p></p><p>The Merchant Houses of Saria would elect an Elder who put forth a portion of his overall worth... And then allowed himself to be killed. The greatest merchants of their time were recorded into the Book of Elders with a portrait, their birthplace, and a single finger bone. The Elders, numbering 99 at any given time, would be called back over the Month of Resurrection, where three Clerics hired by the Merchant Lords spent 33 days to Resurrect each of the Lords. Multiple Books of Elders were maintained in safety around the world, and each man had to pay for his own resurrection.</p><p></p><p>The overall cost for all 653400, around 6600 GP each. </p><p></p><p>Now what about an individual who can trust their faith to bring them back?</p><p></p><p>If you have 200 GP and 127 years to burn, you can be True Resurrected at a later date from the Book of the Dead. This would probably be reserved for individuals who are important to the Faith, but could also be extended to Merchants as an "in case of ruin" possibility, or as a long-term solution to outliving your rivals...</p><p></p><p>Of course you will be returning with your skills, a couple of hundred gold, and a shortened lifespan. A merchant family would put some of their money to an account to prevent death of important retainers that could accrue over centuries... And in cases where there is an express need the individual may pay off their debt to the Church at a higher rate... Gives new meaning to the Death Tax.</p><p></p><p>So what do you think? What are your opinions regarding a magical society in which this sort of thing can happen?</p><p></p><p>Slainte,</p><p></p><p>-Loonook.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Loonook, post: 5904211, member: 1861"] So I've been thinking due to a [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/321731-famine-world-4.html"]few[/URL] [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/322661-value-copper-piece.html"]threads[/URL] about the actual intrinsic value of life for a humanoid in D&D versus a human being in our current time. From the age of adulthood (15 per 3.x PHB Table 6-4) to the maximum age range (110) a human unskilled laborer who never adventurers and just subsists earns 3467.5 GP. The average life span of a peasant in the Middle Ages would be between 30-45, with lowest lifetime earnings between 540 gp - 1080 gp. Overall if you survive to ages below you have a Net Worth of (includes costs of meager living 24 gp/yr.): [LIST] [*]30: 180 [*]35: 240 [*]40: 300 [*]45: 360 [*]50: 420 [*]55: 480. [/LIST] ... The Soldier, from our previous thread (gaining a level at 19, 27, 39 due to grinding CR 1 encounters over his career at a rate of three per year... then kind of peter out...) would gain (6 GP/level/mo), figuring a meager lifestyle (2 GP/mo) as he is being provided a billet: [LIST] [*]19: 192. [*]20: 312 [*]25: 912. [*]27: 1152. [*]30: 1512. [*]39: 3456. [*]40: 3648. [*]50: 5568. [/LIST] ... Probably 50 puts him at the 'old man' stage and you may be seeing this Watchman retiring, perhaps earning a pension at half of his ending wage. Our longsword weaponmith, with a bit of continuing education and adventuring (1 CR 1 encounter every year) would have the same type of 'funds increases' if he makes longswords for the entirety of his career with payment of his 5 apprentices and maintenance/rental fees and a Common Lodging (45 GP/mo). [LIST] [*]16: 1104. [*]20: 2738. [*]25: 6612 [*]29: 11365 [*]30: 12660 (Here's where I would personally stop going to the field ;) ) [*]40: 25674. [/LIST] ... These are raw amounts after payments for the Smith and does not include purchasing additional equipment and additional investments. A Smith who makes it into his 40s is a lucky man, as the damage to the body by the forge and possible forging accidents would probably force most men into the background before this point. The current rate figures unskilled apprentices as listed before for basic Aid checks. I would also say that most smiths have additional fees, taxes, charges, etc. of at least 10-15%. As we can see there is an pretty wide range of possible wealth over a lifespan, just as you would see in our own society... And this is just among three types (Soldier, Weaponsmith, and Unskilled Laborer). As you can see the Soldier or Smith can make a nice profit, enough to live well in their billets or personal lodgings. The Smith could afford his own forge pretty quickly into his career, and get things done. So we have a baseline for our services. The average D&D peasant, who lives to the ripe age of 50 is worth 1260 GP. In real world currency we have an unskilled life's wages being worth around $147420 (with a GP worth a base of $117 and some change)... Meaning a year of peasant life sits at around $4212. The average value of a [URL="http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1808049,00.html"]year of quality life [/URL] in the US is around $50,000, or 427 GP. The study cited in this article from Stanford Economists ca. 2008 puts the value of a 'good year' at 1102.56 GP. In these terms the Blacksmith is sitting at a "value of life" just a little above the Stanford figure for a "good year", and a 6th level soldier has a quality of life a little better than the average value of life for a US citizen per insurance companies. A PC classed character of level 1 is just below the 6th level Soldier for the year, and a 4th level adventurer is at about the same VoL as a Blacksmith. But what exactly does VoL mean? This is the amount that a continued year of existence... Would the prevention of death be worthwhile... So again, these numbers show what an individual's life is worth but what is a good D&D background for value of life be? In a world of magic curing disease and healing injury what would be a good baseline? I believe the best baseline would be something that D&D has akin to such a treatment. Something that a human in D&D can catch, that is consistently going to devalue their life and lead to death if untreated, and how much damage that effect will cost. ---- Let us look at three common issues that would lower quality and value of life that can be dealt with in D&D: Emergency Care Magical Illness/Curse (Mummy Rot) Loss of Limb Unexpected Death (Body Intact) Unexpected Death (Body Dispersed) Unexpected Death (Body Unrecovered) So how much does it cost to 'fix' these issues? Emergency Care (CLW to Stabilize injury): 10 GP ($1170) Mummy Rot (first time success minimum cost): 300 GP ($35,100) Loss of Limb (Regeneration): 910 GP ($106,470) Unexpected Death (Body Intact) [Raise Dead]: 5400 GP ($631,800) UD (BD) [Resurrection]: 10910 ($1,276,470) UD (BU) [True Resurrection]: 26530 ($3,104,010) Emergency Care really only applies to an individual who has no time to heal, and in the case that someone can help to stabilize but needs further assistance. Expensive, yes? If we consider 20% of their lifetime net worth being an appropriate savings for extreme medical issues, a Guard would be able to have his limb repaired as a 'retirement present'. A peasant would be far beyond the ability to be cured of the Rot, while a Smith would, at 40, be able to make an expenditure to Raise themselves. But what about Resurrection? Ahh... That is where it gets interesting :). Welcome to Compound Interest. If the Smith pays, starting at his 16th year, 1/10 of his beginning net income (110.40 GP), invests it into the Guild or Church coffers, and continues until the age of 40, he would have the money for a Resurrection at a 4% interest rate by the age of 53. Why do I care about Resurrection specifically? Because Resurrection creates one of the most interesting cases in D&D healing in one of my games: The Merchants of the City of Saria. The Merchants of Saria kept their Patriarchs about for the purposes of crisis. During the Elder Year (usually once every 40 years) the Elders of Saria would come back to life for a single year to drive forth the economy, then return to the dead. The Merchant Houses of Saria would elect an Elder who put forth a portion of his overall worth... And then allowed himself to be killed. The greatest merchants of their time were recorded into the Book of Elders with a portrait, their birthplace, and a single finger bone. The Elders, numbering 99 at any given time, would be called back over the Month of Resurrection, where three Clerics hired by the Merchant Lords spent 33 days to Resurrect each of the Lords. Multiple Books of Elders were maintained in safety around the world, and each man had to pay for his own resurrection. The overall cost for all 653400, around 6600 GP each. Now what about an individual who can trust their faith to bring them back? If you have 200 GP and 127 years to burn, you can be True Resurrected at a later date from the Book of the Dead. This would probably be reserved for individuals who are important to the Faith, but could also be extended to Merchants as an "in case of ruin" possibility, or as a long-term solution to outliving your rivals... Of course you will be returning with your skills, a couple of hundred gold, and a shortened lifespan. A merchant family would put some of their money to an account to prevent death of important retainers that could accrue over centuries... And in cases where there is an express need the individual may pay off their debt to the Church at a higher rate... Gives new meaning to the Death Tax. So what do you think? What are your opinions regarding a magical society in which this sort of thing can happen? Slainte, -Loonook. [/QUOTE]
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