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<blockquote data-quote="Cyberzombie" data-source="post: 5599591" data-attributes="member: 47"><p>As Eldritch Lord noted, I'm not arguing that medieval Europe is simplistic. I'm arguing that it isn't D&D. You have knights, but they don't act as a vassal to a king in any of the standard settings. They don't have a fief and they don't lord over serfs. Yes, that's not all there was to the dark ages or the later medieval era, but it's not in the basic settings in any real way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not in the basic settings and not in any campaign I've ever played in! Sure, you could do that, and I'm sure many DMs do. But most deities in most campaigns only wish they had a tiny bit of the influence that the Christian church did in medieval Europe. If anything, D&D is even more polytheistic than the Roman Empire ever got. In the real world, you never really had priests dedicated to as *single* god -- at least not if they acknowledged the existence of other gods.</p><p></p><p>Even more strongly, though, D&D wizards would be flat-out impossible in a truly medieval setting. There was NO educated class except the clergy and, to some extent, the nobility. You could not have a school of wizardry, because there's no rival educational establishment to the church. Now, you could make an interesting pseudomedieval where the scholars in monasteries are wizards and they are the spellcasters of the established church. But it would be pretty far removed from a standard D&D setting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>D&D has pseudomedieval elements pasted on to settings that are really something else. Greyhawk City is flat-out Renaissance, down to being run by the Thieves' Guild, to take one example. Well, Renaissance by way of Fritz Leiber -- Greyhawk has more than a little bit of Lankhmar in it. Oh, sure, you may run into a knight in shiny armor in Greyhawk, but he's not a medieval knight, no matter how much his armor glimmers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cyberzombie, post: 5599591, member: 47"] As Eldritch Lord noted, I'm not arguing that medieval Europe is simplistic. I'm arguing that it isn't D&D. You have knights, but they don't act as a vassal to a king in any of the standard settings. They don't have a fief and they don't lord over serfs. Yes, that's not all there was to the dark ages or the later medieval era, but it's not in the basic settings in any real way. Not in the basic settings and not in any campaign I've ever played in! Sure, you could do that, and I'm sure many DMs do. But most deities in most campaigns only wish they had a tiny bit of the influence that the Christian church did in medieval Europe. If anything, D&D is even more polytheistic than the Roman Empire ever got. In the real world, you never really had priests dedicated to as *single* god -- at least not if they acknowledged the existence of other gods. Even more strongly, though, D&D wizards would be flat-out impossible in a truly medieval setting. There was NO educated class except the clergy and, to some extent, the nobility. You could not have a school of wizardry, because there's no rival educational establishment to the church. Now, you could make an interesting pseudomedieval where the scholars in monasteries are wizards and they are the spellcasters of the established church. But it would be pretty far removed from a standard D&D setting. D&D has pseudomedieval elements pasted on to settings that are really something else. Greyhawk City is flat-out Renaissance, down to being run by the Thieves' Guild, to take one example. Well, Renaissance by way of Fritz Leiber -- Greyhawk has more than a little bit of Lankhmar in it. Oh, sure, you may run into a knight in shiny armor in Greyhawk, but he's not a medieval knight, no matter how much his armor glimmers. [/QUOTE]
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