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<blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5599619" data-attributes="member: 6674931"><p>Oh, it's for "plot hook purpose" and not based on Medieval times, got it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, you must be joking. Does "crusades" ring a bell?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Priest and wizards are the most powerful figures in all settings. Both "Medieval-Dark Ages/fantasy" archetypes, no question about it. Behind almost every single official campaign there is some wizard or priest with great power, political or otherwise, capable of leading vast armies into war, at the demand of a greater deity.</p><p>One example: Verminaard, Dragonlance's big villain is a high priest of Takhisis. You will find such examples in every setting, and in every setting's background.</p><p></p><p>Currently, I'm playing the Forgotten Realms 3.5 trilogy (Cormyr - The Tearing of the Weave, Shadowdale - The Scouring of the Land, Anauroch - The Empire of Shade). Up until now it's all about the church of Shar trying to undo the Weave (Mystra). The political power of Sharrans is uncontested.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's what the real crusaders were given to believe as well, they were out to destroy others because they were led to believe that their god was the right one. That's how you can play D&D as well. People fighting the wars are pawns, just like in real life. I don't play D&D so Black & White, nor is there written anywhere in the books that I should play like that. You are free to play D&D as you please. You can play LOTRs or you can play Game of Thrones. It's up to every individual group. Nothing is necessarily better than the other. If you wan't to play D&D like that, you are free to do so by all means, but please do not say that "your" way, is the "right" D&D way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Are you also suggesting that only the Paladin derives from the Middle Ages?</p><p></p><p>Let's take one class at a time and see whether they derive from the Middle Ages, the Romans or the the Renaissance.. shall we?</p><p></p><p>1-Barbarian. I believe the word "CONAN" is a sufficient.</p><p></p><p>2-Bard. Wikipedia: <span style="color: Olive">In <span style="color: Lime"><strong>medieval</strong></span> Gaelic and British culture (Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Isle of Man, Brittany and Cornwall) a bard was a professional poet, employed by a patron, such as a monarch or nobleman, to commemorate the patron's ancestors and to praise the patron's own activities.</span></p><p></p><p>3-Cleric. What do you need to be convinced that the D&D cleric is mainly based on the Medieval Catholic Clerics and Priests? With their armors and maces i don't see much of a difference from the "templar-esque paladin"...</p><p></p><p>4-Druids. Historically, Druids appear in many a period of the Human History... from the Iron Age to the Late Middle Ages. Taking into account the approach of D&D on Druids (just check the artwork), I'd say they are mainly based on the Celtic-Dark Ages archetype.</p><p></p><p>5-Fighter. Sure Fighter is a generic class. Still all you have to see are the weapons and armor in the game. While there are weapons from before and after the Medieval Age, most of them "scream" Medieval.</p><p></p><p>6-Monk... I don't really care about that one... Still, it must be said that there is nothing Roma-esque or Renaissance-esque about it...</p><p></p><p>7-Paladin. You explanation is sufficient.</p><p></p><p>8-RAnger. This one screams "Aragorn"... Perhaps you are willing to argue that Middle Earth is not a Medieval based setting?</p><p></p><p>9-Rogue. The Rogue can be seen as pretty generic too... Still as far as D&D is concerned, just check the art, and tell me if that isn't Medieval.</p><p>Robin Hood is written all over the place...(ok Robin is both a Ranger and a Rogue...<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" />)</p><p></p><p>10-Sorcerers & Wizards. I won't tire you. Gandalf and Merlin should be enough.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, i think it's you that must be joking.</p><p>Just check what Gygax and Greenwood have said about their worlds. (It's funny how Elminster looks just like Gandalf isn't it?)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I do not understand how you relate Magic to Renaissance and not the Medieval Ages. If in your games magic is a substitute for technology, that is your game, and not D&D. Magic, superstition and mysticism is more of a trait of the middle ages ...not the Renaissance. Renaissance signals the birth of rationalism. Superstitions die and man now believes he can do "everything on his own". Since the Renaissance, god has already begun to lose ground.</p><p>"Burn the which!" was a phrase mainly used in the Medieval Ages... not the Renaissance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armor" target="_blank">Plate armor?</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polearms" target="_blank">Polearms?</a> Obviously they were mainly used in the Late Middle Ages and Renaissance, still i should remind you that the MAJORITY of weapons in D&D derive from the Middle Ages </p><p></p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_mill" target="_blank">Watermill?</a></p><p></p><p>Are you sure you are not confusing Middles Ages with the Stone Age?</p><p></p><p>Advanced ships, telescopes? Sure... may I quote my self from my previous post?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I believe I've already pointed out what is laughable and what isn't...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Flying cities?</em></p><p></p><p>Right... I forgot how they appeared during the Renaissance for the first time...</p><p></p><p><em>Magocracies and meddling gods</em></p><p></p><p>Yep... forgot how they appeared during the Renaissance too...</p><p></p><p>(On a side Note: The catholic church & the Inquissition, was a magocracy if you think about it? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" />)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll just quote S'mon on that one</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>are you SURE you are not confusing the Middle Ages with the Stone Age?</p><p></p><p>Eldritch_Lord, I suggest you think twice before using phrases like:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>with people you don't know, or have not talked to in the past.</p><p></p><p>A little about me: I have read enough about European History during my studies, to know what I'm talking about.</p><p></p><p>D&D is MAINLY Based on Middle Ages.</p><p></p><p>I'll finish by quoting once more a line from my previous post:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jimlock, post: 5599619, member: 6674931"] Oh, it's for "plot hook purpose" and not based on Medieval times, got it. No, you must be joking. Does "crusades" ring a bell? Priest and wizards are the most powerful figures in all settings. Both "Medieval-Dark Ages/fantasy" archetypes, no question about it. Behind almost every single official campaign there is some wizard or priest with great power, political or otherwise, capable of leading vast armies into war, at the demand of a greater deity. One example: Verminaard, Dragonlance's big villain is a high priest of Takhisis. You will find such examples in every setting, and in every setting's background. Currently, I'm playing the Forgotten Realms 3.5 trilogy (Cormyr - The Tearing of the Weave, Shadowdale - The Scouring of the Land, Anauroch - The Empire of Shade). Up until now it's all about the church of Shar trying to undo the Weave (Mystra). The political power of Sharrans is uncontested. That's what the real crusaders were given to believe as well, they were out to destroy others because they were led to believe that their god was the right one. That's how you can play D&D as well. People fighting the wars are pawns, just like in real life. I don't play D&D so Black & White, nor is there written anywhere in the books that I should play like that. You are free to play D&D as you please. You can play LOTRs or you can play Game of Thrones. It's up to every individual group. Nothing is necessarily better than the other. If you wan't to play D&D like that, you are free to do so by all means, but please do not say that "your" way, is the "right" D&D way. Are you also suggesting that only the Paladin derives from the Middle Ages? Let's take one class at a time and see whether they derive from the Middle Ages, the Romans or the the Renaissance.. shall we? 1-Barbarian. I believe the word "CONAN" is a sufficient. 2-Bard. Wikipedia: [COLOR="Olive"]In [COLOR="Lime"][B]medieval[/B][/COLOR] Gaelic and British culture (Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Isle of Man, Brittany and Cornwall) a bard was a professional poet, employed by a patron, such as a monarch or nobleman, to commemorate the patron's ancestors and to praise the patron's own activities.[/COLOR] 3-Cleric. What do you need to be convinced that the D&D cleric is mainly based on the Medieval Catholic Clerics and Priests? With their armors and maces i don't see much of a difference from the "templar-esque paladin"... 4-Druids. Historically, Druids appear in many a period of the Human History... from the Iron Age to the Late Middle Ages. Taking into account the approach of D&D on Druids (just check the artwork), I'd say they are mainly based on the Celtic-Dark Ages archetype. 5-Fighter. Sure Fighter is a generic class. Still all you have to see are the weapons and armor in the game. While there are weapons from before and after the Medieval Age, most of them "scream" Medieval. 6-Monk... I don't really care about that one... Still, it must be said that there is nothing Roma-esque or Renaissance-esque about it... 7-Paladin. You explanation is sufficient. 8-RAnger. This one screams "Aragorn"... Perhaps you are willing to argue that Middle Earth is not a Medieval based setting? 9-Rogue. The Rogue can be seen as pretty generic too... Still as far as D&D is concerned, just check the art, and tell me if that isn't Medieval. Robin Hood is written all over the place...(ok Robin is both a Ranger and a Rogue...;)) 10-Sorcerers & Wizards. I won't tire you. Gandalf and Merlin should be enough. Again, i think it's you that must be joking. Just check what Gygax and Greenwood have said about their worlds. (It's funny how Elminster looks just like Gandalf isn't it?) I do not understand how you relate Magic to Renaissance and not the Medieval Ages. If in your games magic is a substitute for technology, that is your game, and not D&D. Magic, superstition and mysticism is more of a trait of the middle ages ...not the Renaissance. Renaissance signals the birth of rationalism. Superstitions die and man now believes he can do "everything on his own". Since the Renaissance, god has already begun to lose ground. "Burn the which!" was a phrase mainly used in the Medieval Ages... not the Renaissance. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armor"]Plate armor?[/URL] [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polearms"]Polearms?[/URL] Obviously they were mainly used in the Late Middle Ages and Renaissance, still i should remind you that the MAJORITY of weapons in D&D derive from the Middle Ages [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_mill"]Watermill?[/URL] Are you sure you are not confusing Middles Ages with the Stone Age? Advanced ships, telescopes? Sure... may I quote my self from my previous post? I believe I've already pointed out what is laughable and what isn't... [I]Flying cities?[/I] Right... I forgot how they appeared during the Renaissance for the first time... [I]Magocracies and meddling gods[/I] Yep... forgot how they appeared during the Renaissance too... (On a side Note: The catholic church & the Inquissition, was a magocracy if you think about it? ;)) I'll just quote S'mon on that one are you SURE you are not confusing the Middle Ages with the Stone Age? Eldritch_Lord, I suggest you think twice before using phrases like: with people you don't know, or have not talked to in the past. A little about me: I have read enough about European History during my studies, to know what I'm talking about. D&D is MAINLY Based on Middle Ages. I'll finish by quoting once more a line from my previous post: [/QUOTE]
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