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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Eldritch Knight+ MC wizard tank ideas?
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<blockquote data-quote="Benjamin Olson" data-source="post: 8397482" data-attributes="member: 6988941"><p>Spell progression is a big issue for Eldritch knights since they are only 1/3 casters and although the spellcaster level gets rounded up when they are straight Eldritch Knigts, when multiclassed it gets rounded down. I would argue that a third caster level (when you go from 3 to 6 spell slots) is a major turning point towards actually becoming someone who can use levelled spells as a major part of their playstyle. This doesn't come until level 7 for an Eldritch Knight, making them one of the slowest options to come fully "online".</p><p></p><p>Thus hopping off Eldritch Knight at level 3 to take a couple levels of Wizard can work. You put off your extra attack but you can make up for this somewhat by building into use of the Booming Blade cantrip, which upgrades at level 5 and allows you to make a single augmented melee attack. Having a familiar to give you advantage on that single attack also helps as a consolation prize. You hit level 5 with 3 caster levels, and although you can only use those 2nd level slots for upcasting so far.</p><p></p><p>Alternatively I would wait until level 6 or 7 of EK before dipping Wizard. You get extra attack on schedule, you get a second ASI and either way, because of the rounded up singleclassed, rounded down multiclass math, you hit 3rd caster level at level 7. Since it looks like you are going sword and board you really do need Warcaster for this sort of character to work, unless you are willing to put away the shield for a few levels, so rushing through the ASIs is probably best.</p><p></p><p>It sounds like you were hoping to do Fighter 4 then multiclass Wizard, which isn't terrible by any means, provided you lean into the cantrips at level 5. A level of Wizard adds a lot. But it is not conducive to advancing your caster level and I think if I got all the way to Fighter 4 I'd basically always rush for the 5th level and get my extra attack.</p><p></p><p>If you are willing to play into the limitations of a Bladesinger's bladesong then that is easily your best bet for an EK's Wizard subclass (but it runs pretty counter to your sword and board style). If not then it is hard to beat War Magic for a small dip by a melee character (giving up being able to cast a levelled spell the next turn for a +4 on a saving throw is a much better deal for you than for a Wizard). There are arguments to be made for Evoker, Abjurer, or Diviner as well, but none quite augment a Fighter's core fighting skills like Bladesinger or War Magic. If you push to 6 levels of Wizard then the Tasha's revision of Bladesinger starts being a reasonable choice even if you don't intend to use the Bladesong consistently.</p><p></p><p>I'd recommend eventually pushing to at least 3 levels of Wizard, because there are just too many good buffs for a fighter in level 2 magic and you are severely limited in what you can get from your EK levels, which mostly have to be Evocation or Abjuration. There's also lots of amazing 3rd level spells if you go to Wizard 5. The quality Wizard spells don't stop at higher levels, but fewer of them are conducive to a spellsword type beyond the first 3 or 4 levels, and your mediocre Int means that you don't really want to play too far into WIzard.</p><p></p><p>Eventually you may want to trade out protection fighting style for one that doesn't burn your reaction. Guys with wizard levels have better ways to use their reactions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Benjamin Olson, post: 8397482, member: 6988941"] Spell progression is a big issue for Eldritch knights since they are only 1/3 casters and although the spellcaster level gets rounded up when they are straight Eldritch Knigts, when multiclassed it gets rounded down. I would argue that a third caster level (when you go from 3 to 6 spell slots) is a major turning point towards actually becoming someone who can use levelled spells as a major part of their playstyle. This doesn't come until level 7 for an Eldritch Knight, making them one of the slowest options to come fully "online". Thus hopping off Eldritch Knight at level 3 to take a couple levels of Wizard can work. You put off your extra attack but you can make up for this somewhat by building into use of the Booming Blade cantrip, which upgrades at level 5 and allows you to make a single augmented melee attack. Having a familiar to give you advantage on that single attack also helps as a consolation prize. You hit level 5 with 3 caster levels, and although you can only use those 2nd level slots for upcasting so far. Alternatively I would wait until level 6 or 7 of EK before dipping Wizard. You get extra attack on schedule, you get a second ASI and either way, because of the rounded up singleclassed, rounded down multiclass math, you hit 3rd caster level at level 7. Since it looks like you are going sword and board you really do need Warcaster for this sort of character to work, unless you are willing to put away the shield for a few levels, so rushing through the ASIs is probably best. It sounds like you were hoping to do Fighter 4 then multiclass Wizard, which isn't terrible by any means, provided you lean into the cantrips at level 5. A level of Wizard adds a lot. But it is not conducive to advancing your caster level and I think if I got all the way to Fighter 4 I'd basically always rush for the 5th level and get my extra attack. If you are willing to play into the limitations of a Bladesinger's bladesong then that is easily your best bet for an EK's Wizard subclass (but it runs pretty counter to your sword and board style). If not then it is hard to beat War Magic for a small dip by a melee character (giving up being able to cast a levelled spell the next turn for a +4 on a saving throw is a much better deal for you than for a Wizard). There are arguments to be made for Evoker, Abjurer, or Diviner as well, but none quite augment a Fighter's core fighting skills like Bladesinger or War Magic. If you push to 6 levels of Wizard then the Tasha's revision of Bladesinger starts being a reasonable choice even if you don't intend to use the Bladesong consistently. I'd recommend eventually pushing to at least 3 levels of Wizard, because there are just too many good buffs for a fighter in level 2 magic and you are severely limited in what you can get from your EK levels, which mostly have to be Evocation or Abjuration. There's also lots of amazing 3rd level spells if you go to Wizard 5. The quality Wizard spells don't stop at higher levels, but fewer of them are conducive to a spellsword type beyond the first 3 or 4 levels, and your mediocre Int means that you don't really want to play too far into WIzard. Eventually you may want to trade out protection fighting style for one that doesn't burn your reaction. Guys with wizard levels have better ways to use their reactions. [/QUOTE]
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