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Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5925786" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I believe that the James Bond RPG, from the early 80s, had Action Points. So players in that game make decisions based not just on the GM's description of a situation, but on their knowledege of their access to a metagame resource.</p><p></p><p>In Tunnels and Troll, PCs have a luck state. What does that respresent in the gameworld?</p><p></p><p>And in D&D, PCs have hit points, and these play a big role in player decision-making. What do hp correspond to in the gameworld? A lot of them, especially at higher levels, correspond to luck and divine favour, which is not anything that the GM is describing to the players.</p><p></p><p>Hit points seem to fit this description pretty well. According to Gygax in the AD&D DMG, so do saving throws - you can't describe the niche into which the chained fighter ducked, for example, until you know that s/he made a save against the dragon's breath.</p><p></p><p>But you would have to ignore the central place of hit points and saving throws in classic D&D. The games that a meta-free are the austere simulationist games like Traveller, Runequest and (slightly less austere) Rolemaster.</p><p></p><p>But what's it illustrate, other than that someone doesn't get the game?</p><p></p><p>Compare:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">GM: The orc swings at you viciously with its axe!</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Player: I duck like I did before, so it just grazes me.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">GM: You can't - you're out of hit points! It cleaves your skull in two!</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Player: So instead of going with a description you gave, I have to make decisions based on how much of this numerical resource I have left on my character sheet?</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">GM: Yes.</p><p></p><p>Note that in RQ, which uses a simulationist rather than a metagame dodge mechanic, the player's response would make perfect sense.</p><p></p><p>Martial encounters and dailies extend the D&D tradition of mixing meta into its "passive" abilities (hp, saves) into the active sphere (attacks, other manoeuvres/checks).</p><p></p><p>You don't have to alter it. You don't even really have to declare it, any more than in AD&D most players would describe the opening, in the minute of attacking and parrying, that actually lets them make an attack roll. It's implicit in using the power, just as the opening is implicit in making an attack roll in AD&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5925786, member: 42582"] I believe that the James Bond RPG, from the early 80s, had Action Points. So players in that game make decisions based not just on the GM's description of a situation, but on their knowledege of their access to a metagame resource. In Tunnels and Troll, PCs have a luck state. What does that respresent in the gameworld? And in D&D, PCs have hit points, and these play a big role in player decision-making. What do hp correspond to in the gameworld? A lot of them, especially at higher levels, correspond to luck and divine favour, which is not anything that the GM is describing to the players. Hit points seem to fit this description pretty well. According to Gygax in the AD&D DMG, so do saving throws - you can't describe the niche into which the chained fighter ducked, for example, until you know that s/he made a save against the dragon's breath. But you would have to ignore the central place of hit points and saving throws in classic D&D. The games that a meta-free are the austere simulationist games like Traveller, Runequest and (slightly less austere) Rolemaster. But what's it illustrate, other than that someone doesn't get the game? Compare: [indent]GM: The orc swings at you viciously with its axe! Player: I duck like I did before, so it just grazes me. GM: You can't - you're out of hit points! It cleaves your skull in two! Player: So instead of going with a description you gave, I have to make decisions based on how much of this numerical resource I have left on my character sheet? GM: Yes.[/indent] Note that in RQ, which uses a simulationist rather than a metagame dodge mechanic, the player's response would make perfect sense. Martial encounters and dailies extend the D&D tradition of mixing meta into its "passive" abilities (hp, saves) into the active sphere (attacks, other manoeuvres/checks). You don't have to alter it. You don't even really have to declare it, any more than in AD&D most players would describe the opening, in the minute of attacking and parrying, that actually lets them make an attack roll. It's implicit in using the power, just as the opening is implicit in making an attack roll in AD&D. [/QUOTE]
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Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
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