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Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 5927490" data-attributes="member: 1656"><p>Yeah, I don't find that phrasing offensive, because it sufficiently acknowledges the subjective nature of the complaint <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Someone mentioned this earlier, but this adjudication approach tends to discourage my preferred play style - when the repetitive grinding approach is massively more efficient and effective than the flavourful or exciting alternative.</p><p></p><p>By building in multiple failure points to the unorthodox action, you make it less likely to succeed, so it's more sensible to take the orthodox approach of hitting someone with a sword.</p><p></p><p>I can remember a couple of anecdotal examples:</p><p></p><p>1E game, where the fighter ended up covered in several big biting beetles (say that three times fast)</p><p>Fighter: "I want to slam my back into the wall, to crush some of the beetles."</p><p>GM: "Okay... call that an unarmed attack, so make a to-hit roll, and if you hit, you can deal 1d3 damage."</p><p>Fighter: "... and if I just use my sword?"</p><p>GM: "To-hit roll, 1d8 damage."</p><p>Fighter: "I hit it with my sword."</p><p></p><p>3E game, where the dwarf cleric was on a spiral staircase leading down to a tower floor 10 feet below with a squad of orcs.</p><p>Cleric: "I'd like to jump off the stairs, and hit the orc sergeant with my axe on the way down. Can I call that a Charge?"</p><p>GM: "Hmm. Hang on." [Five minutes later after consulting the PHB] "I'm gonna say... make a Jump check. If you succeed, you can make your attack; if you fail, you'll take 1d6 damage and can't attack. Either way, you'll end up prone."</p><p>Cleric: "+2 Charge bonus?"</p><p>GM: "Well, it's not technically a charge, so no..."</p><p>Cleric: "Screw it, I'll walk ten feet down the stairs and smack the first orc I reach."</p><p></p><p>One thing I loved about 4E was that I could say "I hack at the first hobgoblin with my longsword, grab his friend by the collar, and headbutt him in the face!", and if the power I was using said "Str vs AC, Two targets, 2[W] + Str", then my description wasn't going to make it less effective than if I said "I hit one hobgoblin with my sword, and then I hit the other hobgoblin with my sword". The fluff didn't have to make my second attack drop from 1d8+2 for the +2 longsword down to 1d3 for an unarmed strike, because the power deals damage based on the +2 longsword.</p><p></p><p>If cinematic action is a/ not discouraged (4E) or b/ actively encouraged (Dino-Pirates of Ninja Island, Feng Shui, Exalted), that tends to produce the gameplay I enjoy the most. If cinematic action tends to be less efficient or effective, or more prone to failure, it's thereby discouraged, and it tends to inhibit the gameplay I enjoy the most.</p><p></p><p>(Which doesn't mean it can't still happen - I played a pregen swashbuckler in a 3.5 game whose fluff text described him wielding rapier and dagger. But he had no TWF feats. I queried the GM on that - "Oh, that's just flavour - just roll for the rapier." "Nuh-uh!" I said. "It says he fights with rapier and dagger - I'm fighting with rapier and dagger!" So for the whole adventure I was making attack rolls with a -4/-8 penalty. Except for the couple of rounds I was fighting from prone, at -8/-12. And still having fun... but admittedly, it would have been <em>more</em> fun if the mechanics of the character had supported what I was doing!)</p><p></p><p>-Hyp.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 5927490, member: 1656"] Yeah, I don't find that phrasing offensive, because it sufficiently acknowledges the subjective nature of the complaint :) Someone mentioned this earlier, but this adjudication approach tends to discourage my preferred play style - when the repetitive grinding approach is massively more efficient and effective than the flavourful or exciting alternative. By building in multiple failure points to the unorthodox action, you make it less likely to succeed, so it's more sensible to take the orthodox approach of hitting someone with a sword. I can remember a couple of anecdotal examples: 1E game, where the fighter ended up covered in several big biting beetles (say that three times fast) Fighter: "I want to slam my back into the wall, to crush some of the beetles." GM: "Okay... call that an unarmed attack, so make a to-hit roll, and if you hit, you can deal 1d3 damage." Fighter: "... and if I just use my sword?" GM: "To-hit roll, 1d8 damage." Fighter: "I hit it with my sword." 3E game, where the dwarf cleric was on a spiral staircase leading down to a tower floor 10 feet below with a squad of orcs. Cleric: "I'd like to jump off the stairs, and hit the orc sergeant with my axe on the way down. Can I call that a Charge?" GM: "Hmm. Hang on." [Five minutes later after consulting the PHB] "I'm gonna say... make a Jump check. If you succeed, you can make your attack; if you fail, you'll take 1d6 damage and can't attack. Either way, you'll end up prone." Cleric: "+2 Charge bonus?" GM: "Well, it's not technically a charge, so no..." Cleric: "Screw it, I'll walk ten feet down the stairs and smack the first orc I reach." One thing I loved about 4E was that I could say "I hack at the first hobgoblin with my longsword, grab his friend by the collar, and headbutt him in the face!", and if the power I was using said "Str vs AC, Two targets, 2[W] + Str", then my description wasn't going to make it less effective than if I said "I hit one hobgoblin with my sword, and then I hit the other hobgoblin with my sword". The fluff didn't have to make my second attack drop from 1d8+2 for the +2 longsword down to 1d3 for an unarmed strike, because the power deals damage based on the +2 longsword. If cinematic action is a/ not discouraged (4E) or b/ actively encouraged (Dino-Pirates of Ninja Island, Feng Shui, Exalted), that tends to produce the gameplay I enjoy the most. If cinematic action tends to be less efficient or effective, or more prone to failure, it's thereby discouraged, and it tends to inhibit the gameplay I enjoy the most. (Which doesn't mean it can't still happen - I played a pregen swashbuckler in a 3.5 game whose fluff text described him wielding rapier and dagger. But he had no TWF feats. I queried the GM on that - "Oh, that's just flavour - just roll for the rapier." "Nuh-uh!" I said. "It says he fights with rapier and dagger - I'm fighting with rapier and dagger!" So for the whole adventure I was making attack rolls with a -4/-8 penalty. Except for the couple of rounds I was fighting from prone, at -8/-12. And still having fun... but admittedly, it would have been [i]more[/i] fun if the mechanics of the character had supported what I was doing!) -Hyp. [/QUOTE]
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