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Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
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<blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 5927555" data-attributes="member: 3424"><p>For what it's worth, "Vancian" to me implies the following (from a previous post):</p><p></p><p>1. Spell slots - A spellcaster's access to spells is expressed in terms of spell slots. Each slot can contain a single spell. This distinguishes the Vancian system from systems that make use of spell points (such as 3e psionics).</p><p></p><p>2. Preparation - A spellcaster has to decide beforehand which spells occupy his spell slots. This distinguishes the Vancian system from spontaneous casting systems (such as the 3e sorcerer).</p><p></p><p>3. Fire and forget - Once a spell is cast, it is removed from the spell slot and cannot be re-used until the spellcaster prepares it again.</p><p></p><p>The following elements are strongly associated with traditional D&D-style Vancian spellcasting, but are (IMO) not critical elements of a Vancian system:</p><p></p><p>4. Daily refresh cycle - spellcasters are only allowed to prepare spells once per day, or each spell slot can only be prepared to hold a spell once per day.</p><p></p><p>5. Generic spell slots - each spell slot can hold any type of spell: offensive, defensive or utility.</p><p></p><p>6. Wide variety of choice - spellcasters can choose what spell to prepare in each spell slot from a wide variety of options, either because they automatically gain access to them (as was the case for the 3e cleric) or because they can gradually build up these options (e.g. a 3e wizard adding spells to his spellbook).</p><p></p><p>When comparing the AEDU system to the Vancian system, the key dissatisfaction is usually that it is less flexible, in particular, points 2, 5 and 6. Most classes do not get to choose which daily power to prepare after an extended rest, utility powers are siloed from attack powers, and even for classes who do get to choose which spells to prepare, there are usually only two to three options per spell slot. Because of point 4, some are also uncomfortable with the idea of encounter spells. </p><p></p><p>Some of the inflexibility issues can possibly be fixed, such as granting more classes the choice of daily powers to prepare, and increasing the number of choices for each class (points 2 and 6). However, certain inflexibilities, such as the split between attack and utility powers, and factors such as the presence of encounter powers (points 4 and 5), are inherent to the AEDU system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FireLance, post: 5927555, member: 3424"] For what it's worth, "Vancian" to me implies the following (from a previous post): 1. Spell slots - A spellcaster's access to spells is expressed in terms of spell slots. Each slot can contain a single spell. This distinguishes the Vancian system from systems that make use of spell points (such as 3e psionics). 2. Preparation - A spellcaster has to decide beforehand which spells occupy his spell slots. This distinguishes the Vancian system from spontaneous casting systems (such as the 3e sorcerer). 3. Fire and forget - Once a spell is cast, it is removed from the spell slot and cannot be re-used until the spellcaster prepares it again. The following elements are strongly associated with traditional D&D-style Vancian spellcasting, but are (IMO) not critical elements of a Vancian system: 4. Daily refresh cycle - spellcasters are only allowed to prepare spells once per day, or each spell slot can only be prepared to hold a spell once per day. 5. Generic spell slots - each spell slot can hold any type of spell: offensive, defensive or utility. 6. Wide variety of choice - spellcasters can choose what spell to prepare in each spell slot from a wide variety of options, either because they automatically gain access to them (as was the case for the 3e cleric) or because they can gradually build up these options (e.g. a 3e wizard adding spells to his spellbook). When comparing the AEDU system to the Vancian system, the key dissatisfaction is usually that it is less flexible, in particular, points 2, 5 and 6. Most classes do not get to choose which daily power to prepare after an extended rest, utility powers are siloed from attack powers, and even for classes who do get to choose which spells to prepare, there are usually only two to three options per spell slot. Because of point 4, some are also uncomfortable with the idea of encounter spells. Some of the inflexibility issues can possibly be fixed, such as granting more classes the choice of daily powers to prepare, and increasing the number of choices for each class (points 2 and 6). However, certain inflexibilities, such as the split between attack and utility powers, and factors such as the presence of encounter powers (points 4 and 5), are inherent to the AEDU system. [/QUOTE]
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Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
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