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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5928522" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>I suppose adopting something like FATE's bennies (I forget what they're called - brain fade) where you have disadvantages, but, you get rewarded for actually bringing them into play is one way to have the players drive the story more than the DM.</p><p></p><p>But, honestly, IMO, the only way you can really have players drive the story in anything more than the most surface level, is to allow players to build the road to some degree. Which means allowing players to add/subtract from the setting in a manner similar (although perhaps to a much lesser degree) than the DM. </p><p></p><p>We see this all the time during character generation where players are given largely free rein (within the constraints placed by the DM) on developing their character's background. "I grew up in a monastery" has in-game setting consequences. And players are generally encouraged to come up with these details and make them matter in game.</p><p></p><p>But, it seems that as soon as the "campaign" starts, all that power is then firmly planted back into the DM's chair and anything that wasn't stipulated at the beginning doesn't exist, unless the DM adds it.</p><p></p><p>Maybe adding in something like "Setting Points" instead of actions points. Once per level (or something like that) the players can add <em>something</em> to the campaign that is entirely outside their character. </p><p></p><p>Dunno, just spitballing.</p><p></p><p>((And, as a side note, I agree with Pemerton that the tenor of this thread has gone WAY up and, as someone who was dragging it down, I do apologize. As I said before, it's been a Hellish week at work.))</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5928522, member: 22779"] I suppose adopting something like FATE's bennies (I forget what they're called - brain fade) where you have disadvantages, but, you get rewarded for actually bringing them into play is one way to have the players drive the story more than the DM. But, honestly, IMO, the only way you can really have players drive the story in anything more than the most surface level, is to allow players to build the road to some degree. Which means allowing players to add/subtract from the setting in a manner similar (although perhaps to a much lesser degree) than the DM. We see this all the time during character generation where players are given largely free rein (within the constraints placed by the DM) on developing their character's background. "I grew up in a monastery" has in-game setting consequences. And players are generally encouraged to come up with these details and make them matter in game. But, it seems that as soon as the "campaign" starts, all that power is then firmly planted back into the DM's chair and anything that wasn't stipulated at the beginning doesn't exist, unless the DM adds it. Maybe adding in something like "Setting Points" instead of actions points. Once per level (or something like that) the players can add [i]something[/i] to the campaign that is entirely outside their character. Dunno, just spitballing. ((And, as a side note, I agree with Pemerton that the tenor of this thread has gone WAY up and, as someone who was dragging it down, I do apologize. As I said before, it's been a Hellish week at work.)) [/QUOTE]
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Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
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