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<blockquote data-quote="Nonlethal Force" data-source="post: 2721981" data-attributes="member: 35788"><p>Ah, the DC issue. This one I am a bit torn on. In truth I lean towards allowing it - because it does require additional feats to make it work. So, at the price of expending a feat, the DC increases by two. You can do the same with a spell, except the DC only increases by one ... but this feat is limited to only evil opponents which means that it has a limitation on effectiveness. So, I lean towards allowing this feat to boost the DC of a Stunning Fist attack by two, regardless of the form of the attack. The only place where I have an issue is if the Stunning Fist takes a completely different form (as in the Fist of Iron feat from CW). Of course, this is a non-issue because that particular feat doesn't have a DC save listed. But, in these cases the stagger affect already doesn't count.</p><p></p><p>Okay, now that I have put out my reasoning, here is how it makes sense to me:</p><p></p><p>For any stunning fist attack/feat <em>used in conjunction with Fist of Heavens</em> from BoED: </p><p><strong>A) </strong> The use of Fist of the Heavens does increase the DC by 2 as long as the opponent is evil and as long as there is no text within the additional feat in question that specificly indicates that it should not increase the DC. <strong>B)</strong> For feats that change the stunning fist into an alternate effect where there is no round in which the opponent is stunned, the DC of the new effect does increase by 2 (if applicable) but there is no round in which the opponent is staggered since there is no round in which the opponent is stunned. (See Fists of Iron, CW, for example) <strong>C)</strong> If the feat combination does produce an additional effect to being stunned in subsequent rounds, then the opponent is staggered in the second round (as per Fist of the Heavens) in addition to any other effect prescribed by the other feat. (See Pain Touch, CW, for example)</p><p></p><p>Does that clarify, Bront? If that makes it clear, I'll go ahead and add it to the Houserule page just so that it is recorded.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nonlethal Force, post: 2721981, member: 35788"] Ah, the DC issue. This one I am a bit torn on. In truth I lean towards allowing it - because it does require additional feats to make it work. So, at the price of expending a feat, the DC increases by two. You can do the same with a spell, except the DC only increases by one ... but this feat is limited to only evil opponents which means that it has a limitation on effectiveness. So, I lean towards allowing this feat to boost the DC of a Stunning Fist attack by two, regardless of the form of the attack. The only place where I have an issue is if the Stunning Fist takes a completely different form (as in the Fist of Iron feat from CW). Of course, this is a non-issue because that particular feat doesn't have a DC save listed. But, in these cases the stagger affect already doesn't count. Okay, now that I have put out my reasoning, here is how it makes sense to me: For any stunning fist attack/feat [I]used in conjunction with Fist of Heavens[/I] from BoED: [B]A) [/B] The use of Fist of the Heavens does increase the DC by 2 as long as the opponent is evil and as long as there is no text within the additional feat in question that specificly indicates that it should not increase the DC. [B]B)[/B] For feats that change the stunning fist into an alternate effect where there is no round in which the opponent is stunned, the DC of the new effect does increase by 2 (if applicable) but there is no round in which the opponent is staggered since there is no round in which the opponent is stunned. (See Fists of Iron, CW, for example) [B]C)[/B] If the feat combination does produce an additional effect to being stunned in subsequent rounds, then the opponent is staggered in the second round (as per Fist of the Heavens) in addition to any other effect prescribed by the other feat. (See Pain Touch, CW, for example) Does that clarify, Bront? If that makes it clear, I'll go ahead and add it to the Houserule page just so that it is recorded. [/QUOTE]
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