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<blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 4024944" data-attributes="member: 13966"><p>Er, what?</p><p></p><p>And I'm only here offering a critical eye towards your rules-text because it's supposed to help you fix it so as to be clear when you put it to serious use in-game or in-print.</p><p></p><p></p><p>For one thing, no, Unmaking is not that non-uber just because it will be very rare in the setting or somesuch. It nullifies one spellcaster or similar, completely, and that basically equals one dead spellcaster. A cleric or wizard is generally just a glorified Commoner or Expert when their magic's nullified, and they can't even run away quickly without magic. With all of their magic undone, and their ability to use any further magic negated, the spellcaster will die in one or two rounds. And they get no chance to avoid that fate. That kind of absolute unstoppability is generally avoided in the d20 system.</p><p></p><p>The wording of your text DOES matter. As it stands, it DOES infer that you can cast Dispel Magic with Dispel of Opportunity even if you don't know the spell; because the wording of the Dispel of Opportunity ability is not worded appropriately to avoid that. At least, it would be very easy for a munchkin to argue that to the DM, since the wording says nothing that contradicts that reading.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Dispel is not a specific action in d20; counterspell IS an action in d20. Dispel Magic <em>normally can</em> be cast to counterspell, so there is no confusion <em>given</em> the way that the text is already written (except for the use of dispel where it should say counterspell). The text already fits the proper rules context, it just needs to say "counterspell" in the few places where it currently says "dispel" for this purpsoe. Therefore the appropriate wording, for the first two lines of Dispel of Opportunity, should say "An entromancer of 2nd level may lose a prepared spell of 3rd level or greater to immediately cast Dispel Magic to <strong>counterspell</strong> another spellcaster's spell. This happens as if the entromancer had a prepared action to <strong>counterspell</strong>. "</p><p></p><p>The only reason this <em>could</em> be inaccurate is if you <em>actually</em> mean for it to be used for dispelling an effect after-the-fact, rather than countering it as it is being cast. BUT YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED THAT QUESTION YET. Is the ability meant to dispel something after it is cast, <em>or is it instead</em> meant to counter a spell before it takes effect? Some spells cannot be dispelled, such as Wall of Force, but they can be counterspelled during casting.</p><p></p><p>If you do mean for it to just dispel an effect after-the-fact, then the wording should clarify that it is not for counterspelling; or, <em>if it's meant to be used for either purpose</em>, then it should clarify that it can be used for either a counterspell or a normal dispelling. As it stands, the wording is unclear on that point.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Note: Caster level checks are not the same as dispel checks. Although they both apply caster level to the roll as a bonus, they are not the same thing in the "Rules As Written," so to speak.</p><p></p><p>In just the same way that a melee attack roll and a Climb check both apply Strength bonus to their rolls, but are not considered "Strength checks" or "Strength rolls" (the latter of which isn't even a d20 term). Strength checks are a specific type of roll, not a general term for all rolls that apply a Strength modifier.</p><p></p><p>Dispel checks are not called caster level checks; therefore, if you intend for "Superiority" to apply on dispel checks, then you must fix it's wording to clarify that it affects dispel checks as well as caster level checks.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Lastly: "If used against the PC's in a party, there are already plenty of ways to take a party member out of a fight for a few rounds at a DM's disposal anyway."</p><p>Response: But those ways generally don't involve a completely unavoidable special ability of the opponent, that turns one PC instantly and unavoidably into a useless, very fragile, very helpless liability.</p><p></p><p>The guy doesn't even have to get close enough to touch you, or hit your touch AC, to slap you with this magic death sentence. He just looks at you funny from hundreds of feet away and you suddenly lose all your mojo, and as a primary spellcaster, that mojo's just about the only thing you can do.</p><p></p><p><strong>Worse, if you were flying at the time due to a magic item or a spell, you plummet to your death unavoidably.</strong></p><p>.....Or if you were <em>underwater</em> and supported by a Water Breathing spell, you drown instantly and unavoidably. Water breathing means you couldn't just hold your breath the whole time it was active; you had to BREATHE the water in, otherwise you'd have suffocated just as quickly as if you hadn't cast the spell at all. So, you wouldn't have been holding your breath while underwater with the aid of that spell, you'd be breathing in the water..... Then Mr. Bad Mojo sees you and suddenly your lungs are filled with water. You die.</p><p></p><p>At least Dispel Magic gives the poor berk a chance to survive, by buffing up his caster level to make the dispel check DC really high, or just by you rolling low on your dispel check. Plus, Dispel Magic can be prevented through a Spell Immunity, Ring of Counterspells (storing a Dispel Magic at the time, of course), a Wish or similar spell that is duplicating Spell Immunity at the time, or various other things in supplements that allow you a fighting chance of avoiding a Dispel Magic that would kill you in a bad environment.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arkhandus, post: 4024944, member: 13966"] Er, what? And I'm only here offering a critical eye towards your rules-text because it's supposed to help you fix it so as to be clear when you put it to serious use in-game or in-print. For one thing, no, Unmaking is not that non-uber just because it will be very rare in the setting or somesuch. It nullifies one spellcaster or similar, completely, and that basically equals one dead spellcaster. A cleric or wizard is generally just a glorified Commoner or Expert when their magic's nullified, and they can't even run away quickly without magic. With all of their magic undone, and their ability to use any further magic negated, the spellcaster will die in one or two rounds. And they get no chance to avoid that fate. That kind of absolute unstoppability is generally avoided in the d20 system. The wording of your text DOES matter. As it stands, it DOES infer that you can cast Dispel Magic with Dispel of Opportunity even if you don't know the spell; because the wording of the Dispel of Opportunity ability is not worded appropriately to avoid that. At least, it would be very easy for a munchkin to argue that to the DM, since the wording says nothing that contradicts that reading. Dispel is not a specific action in d20; counterspell IS an action in d20. Dispel Magic [I]normally can[/I] be cast to counterspell, so there is no confusion [I]given[/I] the way that the text is already written (except for the use of dispel where it should say counterspell). The text already fits the proper rules context, it just needs to say "counterspell" in the few places where it currently says "dispel" for this purpsoe. Therefore the appropriate wording, for the first two lines of Dispel of Opportunity, should say "An entromancer of 2nd level may lose a prepared spell of 3rd level or greater to immediately cast Dispel Magic to [B]counterspell[/B] another spellcaster's spell. This happens as if the entromancer had a prepared action to [B]counterspell[/B]. " The only reason this [I]could[/I] be inaccurate is if you [I]actually[/I] mean for it to be used for dispelling an effect after-the-fact, rather than countering it as it is being cast. BUT YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED THAT QUESTION YET. Is the ability meant to dispel something after it is cast, [I]or is it instead[/I] meant to counter a spell before it takes effect? Some spells cannot be dispelled, such as Wall of Force, but they can be counterspelled during casting. If you do mean for it to just dispel an effect after-the-fact, then the wording should clarify that it is not for counterspelling; or, [I]if it's meant to be used for either purpose[/I], then it should clarify that it can be used for either a counterspell or a normal dispelling. As it stands, the wording is unclear on that point. Note: Caster level checks are not the same as dispel checks. Although they both apply caster level to the roll as a bonus, they are not the same thing in the "Rules As Written," so to speak. In just the same way that a melee attack roll and a Climb check both apply Strength bonus to their rolls, but are not considered "Strength checks" or "Strength rolls" (the latter of which isn't even a d20 term). Strength checks are a specific type of roll, not a general term for all rolls that apply a Strength modifier. Dispel checks are not called caster level checks; therefore, if you intend for "Superiority" to apply on dispel checks, then you must fix it's wording to clarify that it affects dispel checks as well as caster level checks. Lastly: "If used against the PC's in a party, there are already plenty of ways to take a party member out of a fight for a few rounds at a DM's disposal anyway." Response: But those ways generally don't involve a completely unavoidable special ability of the opponent, that turns one PC instantly and unavoidably into a useless, very fragile, very helpless liability. The guy doesn't even have to get close enough to touch you, or hit your touch AC, to slap you with this magic death sentence. He just looks at you funny from hundreds of feet away and you suddenly lose all your mojo, and as a primary spellcaster, that mojo's just about the only thing you can do. [B]Worse, if you were flying at the time due to a magic item or a spell, you plummet to your death unavoidably.[/B] .....Or if you were [I]underwater[/I] and supported by a Water Breathing spell, you drown instantly and unavoidably. Water breathing means you couldn't just hold your breath the whole time it was active; you had to BREATHE the water in, otherwise you'd have suffocated just as quickly as if you hadn't cast the spell at all. So, you wouldn't have been holding your breath while underwater with the aid of that spell, you'd be breathing in the water..... Then Mr. Bad Mojo sees you and suddenly your lungs are filled with water. You die. At least Dispel Magic gives the poor berk a chance to survive, by buffing up his caster level to make the dispel check DC really high, or just by you rolling low on your dispel check. Plus, Dispel Magic can be prevented through a Spell Immunity, Ring of Counterspells (storing a Dispel Magic at the time, of course), a Wish or similar spell that is duplicating Spell Immunity at the time, or various other things in supplements that allow you a fighting chance of avoiding a Dispel Magic that would kill you in a bad environment. [/QUOTE]
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