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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Zardoz" data-source="post: 3932722" data-attributes="member: 704"><p><strong>Some counter points to grimslade</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>Given the item assumptions of 3.5, magical weapons are not really that hard to obtain between the loot found in WoTC adventures, and item creation feats. I will concede that it is tactically a much worse situation than a Disarm for a player if they are unable to return to the town. However, I disagree about the scope of the problem. On top of that, Sundering magical items is very difficult for powerful items, as the Hardness increases with the bonus. Sundering a +1 item is easy. Sundering a +2 item with 20 extra Hardness is not so easy. Finally, as long as you assume that repairing a magical weapon is easier than replacing one, the problem is a short term one.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This point I would concede if opponents sundered their own gear. But given that it is generally up to the players to use Sunder against an opponent, and that players tend to focus on a given weapon, I have to disagree. If the Barbarian sunders an opponents +2 Waraxe, the Barbarian should not complain about it. And the Fighter wont complain at all if he is using a Greatsword that he has specialized in. I do not equip opponents with an eye to providing loot for my players.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Monsters that use Teeth and Claws generally do not have Improved Sunder. Opponents that do use Sunder generally use weapons themselves. Also, Poison, Pit Traps, Regeneration, and Damage Reduction are more often used against the players than they are used by the players. That does not make them a bad thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I thought Sunder worked against item HP, and did not provoke an Item Save.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I fully agree here. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> There are trade offs between Sunder and Disarm. Disarm also has the following advantages:</p><p> - There are weapons that grant a bonus to Disarm</p><p> - Disarm removes a weapon on the first success. Sunder has to eat through item HP</p><p> - Disarm can be blocked with a Locked Gauntlet</p><p> - Disarm is an attack. Sunder is a Standard Action (ie: once per round)</p><p></p><p>Sunder on the other hand, has these benefits:</p><p> - A disarmed weapon can be picked up at the cost of an AoO. Sundered weapons generally cannot be repaired during combat</p><p></p><p>I do not really see the problem with Sunder being in the game. I do think the Disjunction spell is a real problem, however.</p><p></p><p>END COMMUNICATION</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lord Zardoz, post: 3932722, member: 704"] [b]Some counter points to grimslade[/b] Given the item assumptions of 3.5, magical weapons are not really that hard to obtain between the loot found in WoTC adventures, and item creation feats. I will concede that it is tactically a much worse situation than a Disarm for a player if they are unable to return to the town. However, I disagree about the scope of the problem. On top of that, Sundering magical items is very difficult for powerful items, as the Hardness increases with the bonus. Sundering a +1 item is easy. Sundering a +2 item with 20 extra Hardness is not so easy. Finally, as long as you assume that repairing a magical weapon is easier than replacing one, the problem is a short term one. This point I would concede if opponents sundered their own gear. But given that it is generally up to the players to use Sunder against an opponent, and that players tend to focus on a given weapon, I have to disagree. If the Barbarian sunders an opponents +2 Waraxe, the Barbarian should not complain about it. And the Fighter wont complain at all if he is using a Greatsword that he has specialized in. I do not equip opponents with an eye to providing loot for my players. Monsters that use Teeth and Claws generally do not have Improved Sunder. Opponents that do use Sunder generally use weapons themselves. Also, Poison, Pit Traps, Regeneration, and Damage Reduction are more often used against the players than they are used by the players. That does not make them a bad thing. I thought Sunder worked against item HP, and did not provoke an Item Save. I fully agree here. :) There are trade offs between Sunder and Disarm. Disarm also has the following advantages: - There are weapons that grant a bonus to Disarm - Disarm removes a weapon on the first success. Sunder has to eat through item HP - Disarm can be blocked with a Locked Gauntlet - Disarm is an attack. Sunder is a Standard Action (ie: once per round) Sunder on the other hand, has these benefits: - A disarmed weapon can be picked up at the cost of an AoO. Sundered weapons generally cannot be repaired during combat I do not really see the problem with Sunder being in the game. I do think the Disjunction spell is a real problem, however. END COMMUNICATION [/QUOTE]
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