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Everybody Cheats?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7754454" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>Ok, I’m not trying to exasperate you. Your definition of cheating seems to mirror (if not exactly perhaps) [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]’s in that any modification of the die after it is thrown is “cheating.” I would think that an advantage mechanic where two dice are thrown and you pick the better is not to either of you, but I’m not 100% sure on that guess.</p><p></p><p>To answer your other point I’ve already stated that I do that. It’s built into our critical miss rule in particular. If a player rolls a crit miss, they decide what happens, albeit with my approval, although I’m not sure I’ve ever vetoed it. Even when I do choose to overrule the dice, I usually learn them decide what the alternate bad stuff is. In the example I gave when the character was hit with acid gas when triggering the trap, their answer was, “no, I was right there, my face inches away from it. I’m an idiot, and I’m taking the full hit.”</p><p></p><p>The result was death, but it played out over more than 24 hours as they tried to save her.</p><p></p><p>The bottom line for us is that, like Gary stated, we don’t want to slavishly abide to a freakish roll of the die. The dice are “right” the majority of the time. So much so that while we could use a different mechanic, the downsides would be too numerous. So we simply acknowledge that the rule of dice isn’t perfect and adjust where we need to. We don’t question them on every death, just the ones that seem out of place.</p><p></p><p>I thought of another rule that I’m curious about. I’m sure [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] considers this cheating so he need not answer unless I’m wrong.</p><p></p><p>Was the 3e mechanic to confirm a critical hit, or just an alternate method of testing a skill. For that matter, the 4e skill test mechanic is more or less an extension of that mechanic, in that one roll of the die is not accepted without a second.</p><p></p><p>While I understand the reasoning behind the confirmation roll (and to me it’s 100% not cheating), I don’t like the mechanic because of the way is affects the play, and it adds die rolls. We, instead, require a critical hit to be 5 or more needed to hit. It addresses the specific problems the confirmation roll did, without the let down or extra roll. You pretty much know when you can’t make or take a critical hit, but also that circumstances can alter that chance.</p><p></p><p>I also think it’s a decent example of the sort of thing we’re talking about. There’s what I’ll call a soft “cheat” or fudge, in that it’s allowed, but alters the play experience, and the hard “Cheat” which is somebody breaking the rules for their benefit in a way that’s not allowed in the rules, and is in bad faith. </p><p></p><p>If we’re saying that the “common” terminology must rule, even when I believe that it is improper usage of the dictionary defined term, than so be it. I think it’s both insulting and actually makes disgusting the merit of various “legal cheat” rules more difficult to use the term in that manner. </p><p></p><p>I will say that I have no doubt that you, and [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] don’t mean it an insulting way, but that doesn’t change the fact that use of the term in that manner will offend some.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 7754454, member: 6778044"] Ok, I’m not trying to exasperate you. Your definition of cheating seems to mirror (if not exactly perhaps) [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION]’s in that any modification of the die after it is thrown is “cheating.” I would think that an advantage mechanic where two dice are thrown and you pick the better is not to either of you, but I’m not 100% sure on that guess. To answer your other point I’ve already stated that I do that. It’s built into our critical miss rule in particular. If a player rolls a crit miss, they decide what happens, albeit with my approval, although I’m not sure I’ve ever vetoed it. Even when I do choose to overrule the dice, I usually learn them decide what the alternate bad stuff is. In the example I gave when the character was hit with acid gas when triggering the trap, their answer was, “no, I was right there, my face inches away from it. I’m an idiot, and I’m taking the full hit.” The result was death, but it played out over more than 24 hours as they tried to save her. The bottom line for us is that, like Gary stated, we don’t want to slavishly abide to a freakish roll of the die. The dice are “right” the majority of the time. So much so that while we could use a different mechanic, the downsides would be too numerous. So we simply acknowledge that the rule of dice isn’t perfect and adjust where we need to. We don’t question them on every death, just the ones that seem out of place. I thought of another rule that I’m curious about. I’m sure [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] considers this cheating so he need not answer unless I’m wrong. Was the 3e mechanic to confirm a critical hit, or just an alternate method of testing a skill. For that matter, the 4e skill test mechanic is more or less an extension of that mechanic, in that one roll of the die is not accepted without a second. While I understand the reasoning behind the confirmation roll (and to me it’s 100% not cheating), I don’t like the mechanic because of the way is affects the play, and it adds die rolls. We, instead, require a critical hit to be 5 or more needed to hit. It addresses the specific problems the confirmation roll did, without the let down or extra roll. You pretty much know when you can’t make or take a critical hit, but also that circumstances can alter that chance. I also think it’s a decent example of the sort of thing we’re talking about. There’s what I’ll call a soft “cheat” or fudge, in that it’s allowed, but alters the play experience, and the hard “Cheat” which is somebody breaking the rules for their benefit in a way that’s not allowed in the rules, and is in bad faith. If we’re saying that the “common” terminology must rule, even when I believe that it is improper usage of the dictionary defined term, than so be it. I think it’s both insulting and actually makes disgusting the merit of various “legal cheat” rules more difficult to use the term in that manner. I will say that I have no doubt that you, and [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] don’t mean it an insulting way, but that doesn’t change the fact that use of the term in that manner will offend some. [/QUOTE]
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