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Everybody Cheats?
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<blockquote data-quote="prosfilaes" data-source="post: 7754643" data-attributes="member: 40166"><p>I'm not sure that's the end point of the argument. Getting the definitions straight should be the first part of the argument. Then actual discussion can happen, instead of absurd claims like "it is a fact that this is cheating". A dictionary definition of cheating is "To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation."; under that definition, someone not violating the rules can't be cheating, and someone using that definition and making the claim that someone not violating the rules is not cheating is being entirely factual. Arguing about the definition of cheating is pointless, and if its emotional power is too strong to use, then any semantic arguments should be makeable using another word. When [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] argues that using fudging instead of cheating is doublethink, that's a sign that there's no logical discussion to be had, he just wants to use the word with the emotional weight he wants.</p><p></p><p>It is a principle in mathematics given by David Hilbert that "One must be able to say at all times--instead of points, straight lines, and planes--tables, chairs, and beer mugs" and the theorems still follow from the axioms. That's a hard line to take in general argument, but if one can't rephrase your argument without using the word "cheat", it's not a meaningful discussion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="prosfilaes, post: 7754643, member: 40166"] I'm not sure that's the end point of the argument. Getting the definitions straight should be the first part of the argument. Then actual discussion can happen, instead of absurd claims like "it is a fact that this is cheating". A dictionary definition of cheating is "To violate rules in order to gain advantage from a situation."; under that definition, someone not violating the rules can't be cheating, and someone using that definition and making the claim that someone not violating the rules is not cheating is being entirely factual. Arguing about the definition of cheating is pointless, and if its emotional power is too strong to use, then any semantic arguments should be makeable using another word. When [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] argues that using fudging instead of cheating is doublethink, that's a sign that there's no logical discussion to be had, he just wants to use the word with the emotional weight he wants. It is a principle in mathematics given by David Hilbert that "One must be able to say at all times--instead of points, straight lines, and planes--tables, chairs, and beer mugs" and the theorems still follow from the axioms. That's a hard line to take in general argument, but if one can't rephrase your argument without using the word "cheat", it's not a meaningful discussion. [/QUOTE]
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