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<blockquote data-quote="FoxWander" data-source="post: 1295188" data-attributes="member: 1356"><p>For comparison sake, my wife and I broke down some similar classes (Fighter, Knight, Robber Baron and Yeoman) and it seems like the Robber Baron might be a bit weak for the role it's written for. </p><p></p><p>Here's what we found- comparing their hit die, skills, skill points, weapon and armor proficiencies, saves and class abilities the four classes are very similar except in BAB, saves, and class abilities. </p><p></p><p>As a base, the fighter gets 11 bonus feats as his class abilities and he has good Fort saves. The Knight has 12 class abilities (you could call them virtual feats), 3 of which get better as he levels, and good Fort saves (not to mention a d12 hit die). So you could say it's 12+++ class abilities. That's more than the fighter but with his focus on mounted combat, and his Code of Chivalry, he's a little less flexible so it seems balanced overall.</p><p></p><p>The Robber Baron and Yeoman are very similar- they both have d8 hit die, comparable skills, skill points, weapons, armor and even two good saves. But the Robber Baron has <strong>medium</strong> BAB and 9++ class abilities (though admittedly one of those +'s is Sneak Attack which can be pretty potent, but the other is Mounted Combat which seems to re-emphasize his focus on combat)) and the Yeoman has <strong>high</strong> BAB and <u>12</u>+ class abilities. Though you should count Archery twice (and as an extra +) because it applies to all bows <strong>and</strong> crossbows.</p><p></p><p>So unless you're counting Sneak Attack as equal to 4 class abilities we think the Robber Baron is a bit weak for his role as an un-chivlarous <strong>knight</strong>. As you say he is a "dirty fighter" but he's still a <u>fighter</u>. We feel he might work better if you dropped him back to <strong>one</strong> good save and upped his BAB. You could even slow down his Sneak Attack progression if you think it's that powerful, but in that case you might also want to give him a bigger list of Bonus Feats to choose from. (you might want to do that anyway)</p><p></p><p>On another note, looking at the balance of all the classes, the Minstrel seems like a very powerful class. Gaining Wild Shape in addition to the other Druidic abilities <strong>and</strong> Bardic abilities might overshadow anyone playing a straight Bard or Druid. Taking into account the Changeling PrC, that gives you three classes with Wild Shape. Might be a lot of stepping on toes. </p><p></p><p>Please don't take this as just a bitch-fest, we really think you have something with this setting and we look forward to playing it. </p><p></p><p>-Chuck and Michelle</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FoxWander, post: 1295188, member: 1356"] For comparison sake, my wife and I broke down some similar classes (Fighter, Knight, Robber Baron and Yeoman) and it seems like the Robber Baron might be a bit weak for the role it's written for. Here's what we found- comparing their hit die, skills, skill points, weapon and armor proficiencies, saves and class abilities the four classes are very similar except in BAB, saves, and class abilities. As a base, the fighter gets 11 bonus feats as his class abilities and he has good Fort saves. The Knight has 12 class abilities (you could call them virtual feats), 3 of which get better as he levels, and good Fort saves (not to mention a d12 hit die). So you could say it's 12+++ class abilities. That's more than the fighter but with his focus on mounted combat, and his Code of Chivalry, he's a little less flexible so it seems balanced overall. The Robber Baron and Yeoman are very similar- they both have d8 hit die, comparable skills, skill points, weapons, armor and even two good saves. But the Robber Baron has [b]medium[/b] BAB and 9++ class abilities (though admittedly one of those +'s is Sneak Attack which can be pretty potent, but the other is Mounted Combat which seems to re-emphasize his focus on combat)) and the Yeoman has [b]high[/b] BAB and [u]12[/u]+ class abilities. Though you should count Archery twice (and as an extra +) because it applies to all bows [b]and[/b] crossbows. So unless you're counting Sneak Attack as equal to 4 class abilities we think the Robber Baron is a bit weak for his role as an un-chivlarous [b]knight[/b]. As you say he is a "dirty fighter" but he's still a [u]fighter[/u]. We feel he might work better if you dropped him back to [b]one[/b] good save and upped his BAB. You could even slow down his Sneak Attack progression if you think it's that powerful, but in that case you might also want to give him a bigger list of Bonus Feats to choose from. (you might want to do that anyway) On another note, looking at the balance of all the classes, the Minstrel seems like a very powerful class. Gaining Wild Shape in addition to the other Druidic abilities [b]and[/b] Bardic abilities might overshadow anyone playing a straight Bard or Druid. Taking into account the Changeling PrC, that gives you three classes with Wild Shape. Might be a lot of stepping on toes. Please don't take this as just a bitch-fest, we really think you have something with this setting and we look forward to playing it. -Chuck and Michelle [/QUOTE]
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