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<blockquote data-quote="Vigilance" data-source="post: 1295484" data-attributes="member: 4275"><p>Hi there <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>I'm pretty hard to offend, and I definitely did not feel like you were whining.</p><p></p><p>Let me start off with a little full disclosure. The robber baron was beefed up *twice* during the playtest process because it was consistently rated as the weakest class in the book by my players. </p><p></p><p>That said, let me throw my .02 in on the balance of the various classes. </p><p></p><p>I think you're comparing the Robber Baron to the wrong class. Comparing him to any of the fighters, and rating him on the basis of his fighting ability only, he comes up pale. </p><p></p><p>However, let's compare him to the rogue, which is his real analogue (at least in my opinion).</p><p></p><p>BAB is a wash.</p><p></p><p>Skills- rogue wins. More skill points. More skills.</p><p></p><p>Armor and Weapons is in favor of the Robber Baron.</p><p></p><p>Saves is in favor of the robber baron, good fort and dex, as opposed to good fort.</p><p></p><p>HD- Robber baron wins again. 1d8 instead of 1d6.</p><p></p><p>Class abilities: </p><p></p><p>Rogue gets- sneak attack +10d6, evasion, uncanny dodge, trap sense, and four special abilities.</p><p></p><p>Robber Baron gets sneak attack +6d6, 6 bonus feats (from a much smaller list than the fighter), and mounted combat abilities (a special knight's warhorse and eventually +4 to hit when mounted). One of the bonus feats he gets, however, the first one, is Improved Feint. This is key, because he does *not* have to sneak up on you or get off his horse to sneak attack you.</p><p></p><p>I consider that an edge to the rogue. So, if you rate each of the above categories as being worth one point each. The robber baron comes out ahead at +1.</p><p></p><p>He is not as good in a straight up fight as a knight or yeoman. He is better in a straight up fight than a rogue, however. </p><p></p><p>So that's my .02 <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>About the other classes, Minstrel is powerful, but nowhere near as powerful as an *actual* druid (which, in one designer's opinion, is the single most powerful class in the PHB). He (more or less) trades off the ability to shapechange into an elemental for the ability to use bardic music. His spell progression is a bit of a concern in the playtest group, and he might get toned down there.</p><p></p><p>Yeoman is consistently rated as (by a small margin over the knight) the most powerful class in the book. That's something I'm taking a hard look at as well. </p><p></p><p>However, I feel like the knight and the yeoman are just powerful within their niche. Each is less versatile than a fighter, since each can be put in a situation where he doesn't perform well.</p><p></p><p>One more point, the Yeoman got a slight edge up in power, because the game lost its traditional artillery piece, the mage. </p><p></p><p>However, you haven't said anything I haven't heard before, so I will take another hard look at some things. </p><p></p><p>Thanks again for the interest and the comments. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Chuck</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Vigilance, post: 1295484, member: 4275"] Hi there :) I'm pretty hard to offend, and I definitely did not feel like you were whining. Let me start off with a little full disclosure. The robber baron was beefed up *twice* during the playtest process because it was consistently rated as the weakest class in the book by my players. That said, let me throw my .02 in on the balance of the various classes. I think you're comparing the Robber Baron to the wrong class. Comparing him to any of the fighters, and rating him on the basis of his fighting ability only, he comes up pale. However, let's compare him to the rogue, which is his real analogue (at least in my opinion). BAB is a wash. Skills- rogue wins. More skill points. More skills. Armor and Weapons is in favor of the Robber Baron. Saves is in favor of the robber baron, good fort and dex, as opposed to good fort. HD- Robber baron wins again. 1d8 instead of 1d6. Class abilities: Rogue gets- sneak attack +10d6, evasion, uncanny dodge, trap sense, and four special abilities. Robber Baron gets sneak attack +6d6, 6 bonus feats (from a much smaller list than the fighter), and mounted combat abilities (a special knight's warhorse and eventually +4 to hit when mounted). One of the bonus feats he gets, however, the first one, is Improved Feint. This is key, because he does *not* have to sneak up on you or get off his horse to sneak attack you. I consider that an edge to the rogue. So, if you rate each of the above categories as being worth one point each. The robber baron comes out ahead at +1. He is not as good in a straight up fight as a knight or yeoman. He is better in a straight up fight than a rogue, however. So that's my .02 :) About the other classes, Minstrel is powerful, but nowhere near as powerful as an *actual* druid (which, in one designer's opinion, is the single most powerful class in the PHB). He (more or less) trades off the ability to shapechange into an elemental for the ability to use bardic music. His spell progression is a bit of a concern in the playtest group, and he might get toned down there. Yeoman is consistently rated as (by a small margin over the knight) the most powerful class in the book. That's something I'm taking a hard look at as well. However, I feel like the knight and the yeoman are just powerful within their niche. Each is less versatile than a fighter, since each can be put in a situation where he doesn't perform well. One more point, the Yeoman got a slight edge up in power, because the game lost its traditional artillery piece, the mage. However, you haven't said anything I haven't heard before, so I will take another hard look at some things. Thanks again for the interest and the comments. :) Chuck [/QUOTE]
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