Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Excalibur d20
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FoxWander" data-source="post: 1295608" data-attributes="member: 1356"><p>Well, I can see your point how you prefer to compare the Robber Baron to the Rogue. I compared him to the Knight (and Yeoman, the other "combat" class) instead because the descriptive text, before the game rule information, portrays him as basically a not-so-honorable, fallen Knight. He's given up his "mobile tank" niche to be the "dirty fighter". Since he has heavy armor, Mounted Combat bonuses and a Knight's Warhorse this seemed to further reinforce a comparison with the Knight instead of a rogue. </p><p></p><p>The Robber Baron is probably a solid class excactly as written but the flavor text/description seems to paint him as more combat oriented. An un-chivalrous knight with some dishonorable dirty tricks up his sleeve, but then he doesn't have the BAB to back up that impression. With a high BAB, and maybe lower Sneak Attack damage, he's still not going to hold his own in a straight up fight with a Knight just based on the Hit Die difference. (This is assuming he could even fight at all after being impaled by the Knight's lance! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> ) And he'll probably be dead from ranged attacks before he could get near a Yeoman for a straight up fight. Of course, this is why the Robber Baron doesn't do the "straight up" fight thing at all- thus, Improved Feint and Sneak Attack! Anyway, that's the way I saw it after my initial read through.</p><p></p><p>Of course, you could also say that if the Robber Baron gets Full BAB, Sneak Attack AND Bonus Feats why would anybody play a Fighter? (Other than the fact that "Fighter" seems kind of bland compared to the flavorful classes of the setting. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ) Based on that balance issue, maybe the Robber Baron is fine as is after all. But the descriptive text still paints a different picture, so maybe it could be addresses that way. Either way, something seems a little off about the Robber Baron. This is all my opinion (and my wife's to a lesser degree) of course, and based on not actually <em>playing</em> the game yet, AND operating, at the moment, on not quite enough sleep too. So maybe I'm just not "seeing it" yet.</p><p></p><p>However, that "why would anyone play X when you could play <strong>Y</strong>" comparison still holds for the Minstrel. Not as compared to the Druid, but to the Bard. The Minstrel has everything the Bard has and Druidic powers to boot. So even though Bard is an allowable class in the setting, we couldn't see why anyone would play one over a Minstrel. Which brings up the axiom "if something is SO good, no one would NOT take it = unbalanced". Of course this could be partially fixed just by cutting the Bard out completely and replacing it with the Minstrel, which fits the setting just fine. Though the Wild Shape abilities, even if they aren't as powerful as the Druid's, still steal a lot of the Druid's thunder. I think if I were playing a Druid in a party with a Minstrel I'd feel a bit out-classed by a guy who can do most of what I can, almost as good, AND has Bardic Music as well! Of course I could sic my Animal Companion on him if he annoyed me too much though. (but then there's that Soothe the Savage Beast ability to deal with. So I guess I'd have to smack him down with my higher level spells, or wait till I get an Elemental wild shape and roast him alive. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> ) And, again, this is all without playing it yet and just reading the rules, so I may be completely off base on all of this.</p><p></p><p>And I also want to reiterate the many things I like about Excalibur, just so you don't think I'm only trying to pick it apart. I'm <strong><em>real</em></strong> tempted to roll up a Fool character, cause they seem like a kick and a half to play. And hey, who else can get away with insulting the nobility! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> My wife and I have also considered playing a pair of Friar Tuck, a-la Kevin Costner's <em>Robin Hood</em>, Priests. We could absolve each other of our drunken brawls and such, then send each other on "Crusades" to give to the poor and enhance thier lives- thru robbing our enemies and redistributing the wealth via lavish parties and excessive "rounds for the house" at various bars, of course! Such truly pious characters we would be! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> LOL!! But seriously, you really have done a tremendous job with this. The PrC's, especially, really hit the feel of the setting. I really like the various "Color Knights". (I think whatever character I play will be aimed at the Red Knight!) So, isolated balance issues (IMHO) aside- Great work!</p><p></p><p>-Chuck</p><p></p><p>--Edit: Speaking of the Fool. Have you considered how appropriate a Sneak Attack ability fits this character? Especially with Improved Feint at 1st level! You might qualify the Sneak Attack damage as non-lethal only though since a knife in the back really doesn't fit, but some kind of "3 stooges" distraction manuever followed up by a lead shot filled fake chicken to the side of the head does! It could be balanced by slowing the progression of the Wit and Verbal "attack" abilities at later levels, cutting off the highest level ones since they get a little repetitive. It's a modification to the class I know I'd make if I were running an Excalibur game. Of all your classes, The Fool seems most fitting for sneak attacks, especially with a non-lethal qualifier. Think about it. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FoxWander, post: 1295608, member: 1356"] Well, I can see your point how you prefer to compare the Robber Baron to the Rogue. I compared him to the Knight (and Yeoman, the other "combat" class) instead because the descriptive text, before the game rule information, portrays him as basically a not-so-honorable, fallen Knight. He's given up his "mobile tank" niche to be the "dirty fighter". Since he has heavy armor, Mounted Combat bonuses and a Knight's Warhorse this seemed to further reinforce a comparison with the Knight instead of a rogue. The Robber Baron is probably a solid class excactly as written but the flavor text/description seems to paint him as more combat oriented. An un-chivalrous knight with some dishonorable dirty tricks up his sleeve, but then he doesn't have the BAB to back up that impression. With a high BAB, and maybe lower Sneak Attack damage, he's still not going to hold his own in a straight up fight with a Knight just based on the Hit Die difference. (This is assuming he could even fight at all after being impaled by the Knight's lance! :D ) And he'll probably be dead from ranged attacks before he could get near a Yeoman for a straight up fight. Of course, this is why the Robber Baron doesn't do the "straight up" fight thing at all- thus, Improved Feint and Sneak Attack! Anyway, that's the way I saw it after my initial read through. Of course, you could also say that if the Robber Baron gets Full BAB, Sneak Attack AND Bonus Feats why would anybody play a Fighter? (Other than the fact that "Fighter" seems kind of bland compared to the flavorful classes of the setting. ;) ) Based on that balance issue, maybe the Robber Baron is fine as is after all. But the descriptive text still paints a different picture, so maybe it could be addresses that way. Either way, something seems a little off about the Robber Baron. This is all my opinion (and my wife's to a lesser degree) of course, and based on not actually [i]playing[/i] the game yet, AND operating, at the moment, on not quite enough sleep too. So maybe I'm just not "seeing it" yet. However, that "why would anyone play X when you could play [b]Y[/b]" comparison still holds for the Minstrel. Not as compared to the Druid, but to the Bard. The Minstrel has everything the Bard has and Druidic powers to boot. So even though Bard is an allowable class in the setting, we couldn't see why anyone would play one over a Minstrel. Which brings up the axiom "if something is SO good, no one would NOT take it = unbalanced". Of course this could be partially fixed just by cutting the Bard out completely and replacing it with the Minstrel, which fits the setting just fine. Though the Wild Shape abilities, even if they aren't as powerful as the Druid's, still steal a lot of the Druid's thunder. I think if I were playing a Druid in a party with a Minstrel I'd feel a bit out-classed by a guy who can do most of what I can, almost as good, AND has Bardic Music as well! Of course I could sic my Animal Companion on him if he annoyed me too much though. (but then there's that Soothe the Savage Beast ability to deal with. So I guess I'd have to smack him down with my higher level spells, or wait till I get an Elemental wild shape and roast him alive. :p ) And, again, this is all without playing it yet and just reading the rules, so I may be completely off base on all of this. And I also want to reiterate the many things I like about Excalibur, just so you don't think I'm only trying to pick it apart. I'm [b][i]real[/i][/b] tempted to roll up a Fool character, cause they seem like a kick and a half to play. And hey, who else can get away with insulting the nobility! :D My wife and I have also considered playing a pair of Friar Tuck, a-la Kevin Costner's [i]Robin Hood[/i], Priests. We could absolve each other of our drunken brawls and such, then send each other on "Crusades" to give to the poor and enhance thier lives- thru robbing our enemies and redistributing the wealth via lavish parties and excessive "rounds for the house" at various bars, of course! Such truly pious characters we would be! :p LOL!! But seriously, you really have done a tremendous job with this. The PrC's, especially, really hit the feel of the setting. I really like the various "Color Knights". (I think whatever character I play will be aimed at the Red Knight!) So, isolated balance issues (IMHO) aside- Great work! -Chuck --Edit: Speaking of the Fool. Have you considered how appropriate a Sneak Attack ability fits this character? Especially with Improved Feint at 1st level! You might qualify the Sneak Attack damage as non-lethal only though since a knife in the back really doesn't fit, but some kind of "3 stooges" distraction manuever followed up by a lead shot filled fake chicken to the side of the head does! It could be balanced by slowing the progression of the Wit and Verbal "attack" abilities at later levels, cutting off the highest level ones since they get a little repetitive. It's a modification to the class I know I'd make if I were running an Excalibur game. Of all your classes, The Fool seems most fitting for sneak attacks, especially with a non-lethal qualifier. Think about it. ;) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Excalibur d20
Top