Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Failing saves is...ok?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7197186" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Sure. That's how most PCs forced saves. Poison for PCs, the other big source of saves, was pretty heavily restricted/discouraged. </p><p></p><p>But they might well face a lot of other saves. In general, though, the consequences scaled with level, there, too. At low level you might face Giant Centipedes - which forced a poison save. With a bonus. That, at the DM's option, didn't kill, just made you sick. Not in a really consistent manner, of course. </p><p> </p><p></p><p> The line between sucking and dying isn't necessarily that stark. A high level 1e PC could fail his save vs poison (darn those natural '1's), but a prompt Neutralize Poison could still save him automatically. A high-level 5e PC could fail his save (on a natural 17), be paralyzed, keep failing it, and take multiple critical hits each round & die pretty quickly, or fail a different save and take 75 or 140 damage just like that. Not 'instant' death, no. But pretty darn serious. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>Overall, though, I'd say 5e rapid hp scaling, and basing some formerly SoD effects on hps, instead, does even out the consequences of failed saves, and would justify a saving throw 'treadmill,' where save bonuses across the board and save DCs scaled at about the same rate. But that's not what 5e does - most classes get proficiency on only two saves and can afford to max out only one stat, while save DCs in general advance as if they had proficiency and a maxed-out caster stat. You tread water on your best save and fall behind on the other 5. Given that, the effects of a failed save should get less severe at higher level. That'd both not make much sense, and be harder to implement than simply bringing saves up to snuff.</p><p></p><p></p><p> Not only have I had to make a save vs polymorph, I've forced plenty of 'em (a magic-user of mine got ahold of a wand of polymorphing and when nuts, even worked on a Purple Worm once), and my favorite Druid character blithely returned to his normal form after failing one, because he counted as a 'shapechanger' back then (obscure rule). <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Good times.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7197186, member: 996"] Sure. That's how most PCs forced saves. Poison for PCs, the other big source of saves, was pretty heavily restricted/discouraged. But they might well face a lot of other saves. In general, though, the consequences scaled with level, there, too. At low level you might face Giant Centipedes - which forced a poison save. With a bonus. That, at the DM's option, didn't kill, just made you sick. Not in a really consistent manner, of course. The line between sucking and dying isn't necessarily that stark. A high level 1e PC could fail his save vs poison (darn those natural '1's), but a prompt Neutralize Poison could still save him automatically. A high-level 5e PC could fail his save (on a natural 17), be paralyzed, keep failing it, and take multiple critical hits each round & die pretty quickly, or fail a different save and take 75 or 140 damage just like that. Not 'instant' death, no. But pretty darn serious. ;) Overall, though, I'd say 5e rapid hp scaling, and basing some formerly SoD effects on hps, instead, does even out the consequences of failed saves, and would justify a saving throw 'treadmill,' where save bonuses across the board and save DCs scaled at about the same rate. But that's not what 5e does - most classes get proficiency on only two saves and can afford to max out only one stat, while save DCs in general advance as if they had proficiency and a maxed-out caster stat. You tread water on your best save and fall behind on the other 5. Given that, the effects of a failed save should get less severe at higher level. That'd both not make much sense, and be harder to implement than simply bringing saves up to snuff. Not only have I had to make a save vs polymorph, I've forced plenty of 'em (a magic-user of mine got ahold of a wand of polymorphing and when nuts, even worked on a Purple Worm once), and my favorite Druid character blithely returned to his normal form after failing one, because he counted as a 'shapechanger' back then (obscure rule). ;) Good times. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Failing saves is...ok?
Top