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Failing saves is...ok?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7200321" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>So DC 19 saves are off the table, then?</p><p></p><p>That is how BA shakes out (by design) with regard to non-combat and many other checks, and it's nice as far as it goes, as PCs can't help but 'neglect' some checks - there just aren't enough high stats and skill/tool proficiencies to go around. The DCs the party faces reflect that. High DC tasks are going to be tackled by the PCs with good-stat/proficiency, if not Expertise, those with lower checks will stand back or make Help checks. </p><p>Lower DCs everyone can tackle - and the good PCs can often still fail on a crap roll.</p><p></p><p>That is not how it works with attacks, though. PC attacks /do/ scale very consistently with level. So do the saves PCs force and the save DCs they likely face. Unlike skill checks, they can't have only the 18 CON, fort-proficiency character make all the poison saves while others 'help.' But, like skill checks, when a low-DC save (typically 13 is as low as it goes) is called for, the good stat, proficient PCs can still fail it. There's really no danger of making low DCs fall off the radar for everyone. The more ambitious 'fixes' mentioned here might give the worst-save PCs a +2, 3 or maybe +5 at 20th level - they'd still have to worry about even DC 10 nuisance saves.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7200321, member: 996"] So DC 19 saves are off the table, then? That is how BA shakes out (by design) with regard to non-combat and many other checks, and it's nice as far as it goes, as PCs can't help but 'neglect' some checks - there just aren't enough high stats and skill/tool proficiencies to go around. The DCs the party faces reflect that. High DC tasks are going to be tackled by the PCs with good-stat/proficiency, if not Expertise, those with lower checks will stand back or make Help checks. Lower DCs everyone can tackle - and the good PCs can often still fail on a crap roll. That is not how it works with attacks, though. PC attacks /do/ scale very consistently with level. So do the saves PCs force and the save DCs they likely face. Unlike skill checks, they can't have only the 18 CON, fort-proficiency character make all the poison saves while others 'help.' But, like skill checks, when a low-DC save (typically 13 is as low as it goes) is called for, the good stat, proficient PCs can still fail it. There's really no danger of making low DCs fall off the radar for everyone. The more ambitious 'fixes' mentioned here might give the worst-save PCs a +2, 3 or maybe +5 at 20th level - they'd still have to worry about even DC 10 nuisance saves. [/QUOTE]
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