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Failing saves is...ok?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7200454" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>In the sense that it overwhelms the d20. It's a DC that everyone might have to try to match that some PCs can make fairly easily that others just have to hope for a natural 20.</p><p></p><p> Players tend not to use attacks they aren't proficient in or that key off their bad attributes. Though if DMs are dutifully assuming that 8 STR PCs at high level will be attacking with a mace, and should have a shot at hitting the enemy, that might explain all those '5e is too easy' complaints.</p><p></p><p> There's no need to worry about the PCs never facing that DC 10 save. It's when the whole party gets slammed with the high-DC save that the cracks show.</p><p></p><p> Nod. And the problem with saves doesn't manifest in that scenario, at all. </p><p></p><p>If the whole high level party gets attacked by a barrage of arrows from a horde of orcs, there'll be some that barely get hit because they have very high AC, and some that'll get hit more often because their AC isn't that good. None of them will get pincushioned because of their 9 AC. </p><p></p><p>If the whole party gets slammed with a high-level AE spell, some will have a good chance of saving (maybe of a 6 or 8), some a poorer chance, and one of 'em may very well have the equivalent of that 9 AC - an 8 in the stat and no proficiency.</p><p></p><p></p><p> You generally can, and when the whole party needs to make some skill check, the DC's usually a bit lower. </p><p></p><p> He can lower a rope, and everyone else has an easier DC. </p><p></p><p> Check out the MM. Are there a lot of CR 20 critters throwing down DC 10 saves? Or CR 11s, for that matter. No. </p><p></p><p>If you are a high level character, you're going to face attacks with a high bonus, and you're going to face saves with a high DC. Not every time, and you can try to avoid them as hard as you like, but when the former happens, you can quite easily have a decent AC, while when the latter happens, covering all your saving-throw bases is impractical.</p><p></p><p>If everyone had proficiency, reduced proficiency, or at least fractional proficiency on saves across the board, it'd actually /restore/ BA, because the high end of DCs doesn't become untouchable. Still awfully hard, but not untouchable - and the low end would not fall off the cliff, either. </p><p></p><p> No, but the expectation is that they generally get better at standing up to threats. Everyone gets more hps, everyone's AC tends to go up, everyone's attack bonuses go up...</p><p></p><p> Actually, it's kinda nonsensical. You spend your whole (probably short) life adventuring, and never get better at most adventuring tasks? Just the ones you were 'proficient' in when you started?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7200454, member: 996"] In the sense that it overwhelms the d20. It's a DC that everyone might have to try to match that some PCs can make fairly easily that others just have to hope for a natural 20. Players tend not to use attacks they aren't proficient in or that key off their bad attributes. Though if DMs are dutifully assuming that 8 STR PCs at high level will be attacking with a mace, and should have a shot at hitting the enemy, that might explain all those '5e is too easy' complaints. There's no need to worry about the PCs never facing that DC 10 save. It's when the whole party gets slammed with the high-DC save that the cracks show. Nod. And the problem with saves doesn't manifest in that scenario, at all. If the whole high level party gets attacked by a barrage of arrows from a horde of orcs, there'll be some that barely get hit because they have very high AC, and some that'll get hit more often because their AC isn't that good. None of them will get pincushioned because of their 9 AC. If the whole party gets slammed with a high-level AE spell, some will have a good chance of saving (maybe of a 6 or 8), some a poorer chance, and one of 'em may very well have the equivalent of that 9 AC - an 8 in the stat and no proficiency. You generally can, and when the whole party needs to make some skill check, the DC's usually a bit lower. He can lower a rope, and everyone else has an easier DC. Check out the MM. Are there a lot of CR 20 critters throwing down DC 10 saves? Or CR 11s, for that matter. No. If you are a high level character, you're going to face attacks with a high bonus, and you're going to face saves with a high DC. Not every time, and you can try to avoid them as hard as you like, but when the former happens, you can quite easily have a decent AC, while when the latter happens, covering all your saving-throw bases is impractical. If everyone had proficiency, reduced proficiency, or at least fractional proficiency on saves across the board, it'd actually /restore/ BA, because the high end of DCs doesn't become untouchable. Still awfully hard, but not untouchable - and the low end would not fall off the cliff, either. No, but the expectation is that they generally get better at standing up to threats. Everyone gets more hps, everyone's AC tends to go up, everyone's attack bonuses go up... Actually, it's kinda nonsensical. You spend your whole (probably short) life adventuring, and never get better at most adventuring tasks? Just the ones you were 'proficient' in when you started? [/QUOTE]
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