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Failing saves is...ok?
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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 7201660"><p>Sure, but I wouldn't exactly call that a difficult save. Bad stuff happens. By default most characters have a 60% chance to succeed using average scores. With good scores they're looking at a 75% chance to succeed. Sure that's a 1/4 chance of failure but <em>reasonably speaking</em> that's not bad. I typically take the approach that for non-mundane things, the higher the chance of success, the more catastrophic the failure should be. If you've got a 1/20 chance of failure (literally, the only way to fail is to roll a 1 and it's not considered an auto-fail), then that 1 represents an incredible downturn of events. </p><p></p><p>And I think that's approrpiate for your example situation. Their chance of success was incredibly high, so the result of their failure was catastrophic. </p><p></p><p>But I question how much strategy one can develop without knowing the sort of odds they're facing. I try to avoid outright <em>telling</em> players the DC, but having an NPC tell them the The Count is a dangerous man and not to be trifled with may not convey the message of "This is a DC 51, don't mess with this guy yet!". </p><p></p><p>Certainly the players may always pick the wrong strategy, making a hard but possible task totally impossible; but the task itsself wasn't impossible. And I suppose that's my problem which I mentioned a while back. Impossible tasks shouldn't exist. (To use Nagol's math: such as a DC 75) There may be tasks that are out of your reach, tasks that you lack the appropriate solution/strategy for, tasks that you don't understand how to solve; and that's fine.</p><p></p><p>Everyone should plan for failure, that's not to say everyone <em>will</em>, but failure shouldn't be the only possible outcome. Otherwise why even allow your players to roll? You (not you you) have already decided they have no agency in the situation, so why play up the farce?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 7201660"] Sure, but I wouldn't exactly call that a difficult save. Bad stuff happens. By default most characters have a 60% chance to succeed using average scores. With good scores they're looking at a 75% chance to succeed. Sure that's a 1/4 chance of failure but [I]reasonably speaking[/I] that's not bad. I typically take the approach that for non-mundane things, the higher the chance of success, the more catastrophic the failure should be. If you've got a 1/20 chance of failure (literally, the only way to fail is to roll a 1 and it's not considered an auto-fail), then that 1 represents an incredible downturn of events. And I think that's approrpiate for your example situation. Their chance of success was incredibly high, so the result of their failure was catastrophic. But I question how much strategy one can develop without knowing the sort of odds they're facing. I try to avoid outright [I]telling[/I] players the DC, but having an NPC tell them the The Count is a dangerous man and not to be trifled with may not convey the message of "This is a DC 51, don't mess with this guy yet!". Certainly the players may always pick the wrong strategy, making a hard but possible task totally impossible; but the task itsself wasn't impossible. And I suppose that's my problem which I mentioned a while back. Impossible tasks shouldn't exist. (To use Nagol's math: such as a DC 75) There may be tasks that are out of your reach, tasks that you lack the appropriate solution/strategy for, tasks that you don't understand how to solve; and that's fine. Everyone should plan for failure, that's not to say everyone [I]will[/I], but failure shouldn't be the only possible outcome. Otherwise why even allow your players to roll? You (not you you) have already decided they have no agency in the situation, so why play up the farce? [/QUOTE]
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