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Failing saves is...ok?
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7203635" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Clearly you don't--you've said so repeatedly in this thread. That's personal taste however; there are others who couldn't care less if saves get failed often. E.g. who cares if you fail 95% of your saves vs. Aboleth charm if you've got a Paladin of Devotion fighting next to you and therefore can't be charmed? 95% of zero is still zero. (Ditto if you're wearing a Protection From Evil spell.)</p><p></p><p>5E's designers have said this is the way it's supposed to work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Like it or not, that's how Bounded Accuracy works, and how 5E was designed. In practice it seems to work out just fine. Counterexamples are welcome but so far none have been provided.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I understand your point, but I disagree that such a change is needed. There are already a ton of mitigations for failed saves in 5E, and most failed saves don't cripple you anyway. (Even DEATH usually doesn't hurt you that much in 5E.) There are a handful of really bad saves to fail, but most of this thread has been spent discussing things like the Frightened condition which aren't severely debilitating even if you <em>do</em> fail the save, and has plenty of mitigations.</p><p></p><p>I understand that it bothers some people on this thread for high-level fighters to still slip on DC 10 ball bearings spilled by a kobold, or for certain high-level wizards to always take full damage from dragon breath; I don't really grok <em>why</em> it bothers you folks, but there's no accounting for taste so whatever. To everyone else though, all the suggestions advanced on this thread look like solutions in search of a problem.</p><p></p><p>Notably, no one except James has ever attempted to lay out an actual problem caused by the way saving throws work in 5E. The only example you gave in your most recent post, Tony, was Hold Person, and you were using it to illustrate how 5E's consequences are less severe than they used to be.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 7203635, member: 6787650"] Clearly you don't--you've said so repeatedly in this thread. That's personal taste however; there are others who couldn't care less if saves get failed often. E.g. who cares if you fail 95% of your saves vs. Aboleth charm if you've got a Paladin of Devotion fighting next to you and therefore can't be charmed? 95% of zero is still zero. (Ditto if you're wearing a Protection From Evil spell.) 5E's designers have said this is the way it's supposed to work. Like it or not, that's how Bounded Accuracy works, and how 5E was designed. In practice it seems to work out just fine. Counterexamples are welcome but so far none have been provided. I understand your point, but I disagree that such a change is needed. There are already a ton of mitigations for failed saves in 5E, and most failed saves don't cripple you anyway. (Even DEATH usually doesn't hurt you that much in 5E.) There are a handful of really bad saves to fail, but most of this thread has been spent discussing things like the Frightened condition which aren't severely debilitating even if you [I]do[/I] fail the save, and has plenty of mitigations. I understand that it bothers some people on this thread for high-level fighters to still slip on DC 10 ball bearings spilled by a kobold, or for certain high-level wizards to always take full damage from dragon breath; I don't really grok [I]why[/I] it bothers you folks, but there's no accounting for taste so whatever. To everyone else though, all the suggestions advanced on this thread look like solutions in search of a problem. Notably, no one except James has ever attempted to lay out an actual problem caused by the way saving throws work in 5E. The only example you gave in your most recent post, Tony, was Hold Person, and you were using it to illustrate how 5E's consequences are less severe than they used to be. [/QUOTE]
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