Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Failing saves is...ok?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7203975" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>I must have overlooked the post where you quoted Rodney Thompson too, but this post reveals that you seem to be using a wildly different definition of "bounded accuracy" than he does. AC 25 doesn't "break" bounded accuracy. (Clearly not--both because 5E monsters sometimes have ACs that high, and because you can wind up fighting and even beating AC 25 at first level, before any advancement even occurs.) AC 35 on a monster would probably be a violation of bounded accuracy because it reveals a DM who apparently expects PCs to have lots of plusses to-hit; it would <em>not</em> be a violation of bounded accuracy if the DM was intentionally expressing the monster as being almost impossible to hit, e.g. a diamond-hard creature the size of a pin-head might appropriately have AC 35, and if any PCs manage to hit it that's a bonus due to their sheer awesomeness and not just a difficulty treadmill the DM set up to "challenge" high-level PCs.</p><p></p><p>Countering Meteor Swarm with Counterspell is bounded accuracy at its purest because of bounded accuracy is all about increasing in HP, damage, and special abilities instead of just pluses to your d20 roll. Counterspell is a special ability. The fact that it could have happened in 3.x doesn't mean anything; it's not like the principles of bounded accuracy were invented out of whole cloth. AD&D had most of the same principles.</p><p></p><p>What Bounded Accuracy is very definite about is that there shouldn't be any DM-side assumptions about the PCs increasing their offensive or defensive d20 bonuses as they level up. It's not a treadmill. Maybe you <em>like</em> treadmills and want to throw BA out the window--many of the DMs on this thread apparently do--but don't try to justify it in the name of a completely different principle which you name "bounded accuracy" just to be confusing. If you use save DCs of 20+ simply because you're running high-level adventures and want to "challenge" PCs with high bonuses, and then you're distressed because the PCs with low bonuses never make the saves... the problem was created not by 5E but by the fact that you, the adventure designer, are violating the assumptions of bounded accuracy. You've re-invented the treadmill.</p><p></p><p>You could call it "Unbounded Accuracy 5E" though. If that's what you like, more power to you, and I'll stay off that thread.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 7203975, member: 6787650"] I must have overlooked the post where you quoted Rodney Thompson too, but this post reveals that you seem to be using a wildly different definition of "bounded accuracy" than he does. AC 25 doesn't "break" bounded accuracy. (Clearly not--both because 5E monsters sometimes have ACs that high, and because you can wind up fighting and even beating AC 25 at first level, before any advancement even occurs.) AC 35 on a monster would probably be a violation of bounded accuracy because it reveals a DM who apparently expects PCs to have lots of plusses to-hit; it would [I]not[/I] be a violation of bounded accuracy if the DM was intentionally expressing the monster as being almost impossible to hit, e.g. a diamond-hard creature the size of a pin-head might appropriately have AC 35, and if any PCs manage to hit it that's a bonus due to their sheer awesomeness and not just a difficulty treadmill the DM set up to "challenge" high-level PCs. Countering Meteor Swarm with Counterspell is bounded accuracy at its purest because of bounded accuracy is all about increasing in HP, damage, and special abilities instead of just pluses to your d20 roll. Counterspell is a special ability. The fact that it could have happened in 3.x doesn't mean anything; it's not like the principles of bounded accuracy were invented out of whole cloth. AD&D had most of the same principles. What Bounded Accuracy is very definite about is that there shouldn't be any DM-side assumptions about the PCs increasing their offensive or defensive d20 bonuses as they level up. It's not a treadmill. Maybe you [I]like[/I] treadmills and want to throw BA out the window--many of the DMs on this thread apparently do--but don't try to justify it in the name of a completely different principle which you name "bounded accuracy" just to be confusing. If you use save DCs of 20+ simply because you're running high-level adventures and want to "challenge" PCs with high bonuses, and then you're distressed because the PCs with low bonuses never make the saves... the problem was created not by 5E but by the fact that you, the adventure designer, are violating the assumptions of bounded accuracy. You've re-invented the treadmill. You could call it "Unbounded Accuracy 5E" though. If that's what you like, more power to you, and I'll stay off that thread. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Failing saves is...ok?
Top