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Fallacious Follies: Oberoni, Stormwind, and Fallacies OH MY!
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 9176865" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>That's a good summary, and I share your mental mapping of character-design-spaces. (Albeit I started from the set of all possible characters, but from there our thoughts go in the same direction.) Suffice to say that in many of the most widely played RPGs, such non-contingent relationships do indeed obtain. Implying that for many players, my observation will prove right in their experiences at the table. (Unsurprising, because it was from observing such experiences that I drew my supposition.)</p><p></p><p>A residual question is what non-contingent relationships not obtaining looks like? A broad class of examples might be freeform character capabilities, such as HeroQuest abilities or Torchbearer wises and instincts. Being freeform, one might predict that, that which was great for RP will be necessarily optimal (if optimal is taken to mean something like - relevance and strength of leverage over the narrative.) One could argue (and I have seen in actual play) that for a given genre, setting, mode or premise some choices tend to offer stronger or more relevant leverage over the narrative than others. But then isn't that be the same as saying they are less effective for RP!? Still, I can picture a player saying "I would love to have this ability but I know it will be weak or hardly ever relevant in play" which seems to describe conflict between RP and optimisation ... even where choices are not constrained by formal mechanical structures.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I'm curious about whether you would agree with the suggestion of what "optimal" looks like outside of formal mechanical structures, and what games you would say fall into the "non-contingent relationships don't obtain" category (whether for the same or different reasons.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 9176865, member: 71699"] That's a good summary, and I share your mental mapping of character-design-spaces. (Albeit I started from the set of all possible characters, but from there our thoughts go in the same direction.) Suffice to say that in many of the most widely played RPGs, such non-contingent relationships do indeed obtain. Implying that for many players, my observation will prove right in their experiences at the table. (Unsurprising, because it was from observing such experiences that I drew my supposition.) A residual question is what non-contingent relationships not obtaining looks like? A broad class of examples might be freeform character capabilities, such as HeroQuest abilities or Torchbearer wises and instincts. Being freeform, one might predict that, that which was great for RP will be necessarily optimal (if optimal is taken to mean something like - relevance and strength of leverage over the narrative.) One could argue (and I have seen in actual play) that for a given genre, setting, mode or premise some choices tend to offer stronger or more relevant leverage over the narrative than others. But then isn't that be the same as saying they are less effective for RP!? Still, I can picture a player saying "I would love to have this ability but I know it will be weak or hardly ever relevant in play" which seems to describe conflict between RP and optimisation ... even where choices are not constrained by formal mechanical structures. Anyway, I'm curious about whether you would agree with the suggestion of what "optimal" looks like outside of formal mechanical structures, and what games you would say fall into the "non-contingent relationships don't obtain" category (whether for the same or different reasons.) [/QUOTE]
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Fallacious Follies: Oberoni, Stormwind, and Fallacies OH MY!
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