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<blockquote data-quote="fusangite" data-source="post: 3569455" data-attributes="member: 7240"><p>I agree that "it's magic" is a lame excuse. But invoking that excuse is not identical to acknowledging that game worlds have different physical laws than our world does. A systematic interpretation of these laws, while it would likely produce different geology than our own, is not simply an "it's magic handwave."How are magic and science different in D&D? What do you think the magic rules in the PHB and DMG are other than an expression of a D&D world's physical laws? Magic is part of the physics of a D&D world, not separate from it. </p><p></p><p>Science is not a specific set of truths; it is a way of approaching and understanding phenomena based on empirical observation. The empirical observation of a D&D world <em>reveals</em> magic.Doesn't this depend on the world?So, you're saying that D&D worlds that have frequent cataclysmic realignments of the physical world are, by definition, impossible? Surely one would have to actually know something about such a world before making that call.How could a D&D world have plate tectonics? Plate tectonics don't exist in universes with only four elements. I mean, how can you even explain plate tectonics using the D&D element system described in the rules?So, what do you make of the MOTP sections on the Elemental Plane of Earth? Of Xorns in the MMI? The rules are quite specific that "earth," (a category of thing that doesn't even exist in our world) has some notably different properties than variously-composed chunks of minerals that we colloquially call "earth" on this planet.I have no objection to your take here and am glad you have been able to put your degree to use in a way that makes your players happy. But to assume that your approach to D&D physics is the only creative and intelligent one smacks of unjustified arrogance.That's funny. I find Spelljammer's superficial and incoherent way of thinking about magic makes it tough for me to suspend disbelief.You are presuming some kind of nature/magic dichotemy that I just don't see borne out in the rules. I think that if you step back and try to construct a definition of "nature" that is stable and useful in a D&D world, you will find yourself hard-pressed.Suspension of disbelief matters a lot to me too. But for me, and many of my players, the believability of a world is contingent on how consistent it is with itself, as opposed to how consistent it is with our world. So you feel that our world's physical laws are the only possible set of rules/laws one can use to predict things? As long as GM creates a set of consistent physical rules for their world, people can make predictions using them, irrespective of their resemblance to our world's rules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="fusangite, post: 3569455, member: 7240"] I agree that "it's magic" is a lame excuse. But invoking that excuse is not identical to acknowledging that game worlds have different physical laws than our world does. A systematic interpretation of these laws, while it would likely produce different geology than our own, is not simply an "it's magic handwave."How are magic and science different in D&D? What do you think the magic rules in the PHB and DMG are other than an expression of a D&D world's physical laws? Magic is part of the physics of a D&D world, not separate from it. Science is not a specific set of truths; it is a way of approaching and understanding phenomena based on empirical observation. The empirical observation of a D&D world [i]reveals[/i] magic.Doesn't this depend on the world?So, you're saying that D&D worlds that have frequent cataclysmic realignments of the physical world are, by definition, impossible? Surely one would have to actually know something about such a world before making that call.How could a D&D world have plate tectonics? Plate tectonics don't exist in universes with only four elements. I mean, how can you even explain plate tectonics using the D&D element system described in the rules?So, what do you make of the MOTP sections on the Elemental Plane of Earth? Of Xorns in the MMI? The rules are quite specific that "earth," (a category of thing that doesn't even exist in our world) has some notably different properties than variously-composed chunks of minerals that we colloquially call "earth" on this planet.I have no objection to your take here and am glad you have been able to put your degree to use in a way that makes your players happy. But to assume that your approach to D&D physics is the only creative and intelligent one smacks of unjustified arrogance.That's funny. I find Spelljammer's superficial and incoherent way of thinking about magic makes it tough for me to suspend disbelief.You are presuming some kind of nature/magic dichotemy that I just don't see borne out in the rules. I think that if you step back and try to construct a definition of "nature" that is stable and useful in a D&D world, you will find yourself hard-pressed.Suspension of disbelief matters a lot to me too. But for me, and many of my players, the believability of a world is contingent on how consistent it is with itself, as opposed to how consistent it is with our world. So you feel that our world's physical laws are the only possible set of rules/laws one can use to predict things? As long as GM creates a set of consistent physical rules for their world, people can make predictions using them, irrespective of their resemblance to our world's rules. [/QUOTE]
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