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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3583753" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Email me at my hotmail account and we'll talk. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is, of course, true of real-world physics as well. Tests under controlled circumstances are what is "on camera"; arguably, nothing can be said about what happens when you are not looking. Even in the event that our model of physics was 100% in accord with the underlying reality, we would have no way of knowing that to be the case. A given model cannot be proven to be correct. It can, however, be demonstrated to be incorrect.</p><p></p><p>This is the difference between claiming that the Rules-As-Written is the underlying-reality-type physics of the world and that the Rules-As-Used are. In the event that the RAW <em><strong>is</strong></em> the RAU (as is true for fusangite), then the RAW <em><strong>is</strong></em> the underlying-reality-type physics of the world. In the event that the RAW is not the RAU, then the RAW is a model-type physics whereas the RAU is the underlying-reality-type physics.</p><p></p><p>Where physics of the underlying-rules-of-reality are concerned, the game is itself a model that relies upon the RAU as the underlying rules of reality, making the claim that "RAU = Underlying-Reality-Type Physics" almost tautological. Where physics as a predictive model is concerned, the RAW provides the predictive model used by the players (and, presumably, the DM), making "RAW = Predictive Model-Type Physics" almost tautological.</p><p></p><p>My understanding of fusangite's challenge is to demonstrate a case where this breaks down. I would extend it thusly:</p><p></p><p>In the case of underlying-rules-of-reality type physics, demonstrate a case where the events of the game world do not follow the Rules As Used. Please note how this differs from the Rules As Used.</p><p></p><p>In the case of predictive model type physics, demonstrate a case where the players should not use the RAW (including house rules) as their predictive model. Please state the predictive model that should be used instead.</p><p></p><p>I do believe that the needs of the game world trump the RAW, but I cannot see any instance where DM or player can trump the RAU. Again, this is almost tautological AFAIK.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, but given time to consider it, wouldn't you agree that if The Buzz and The Quickening <em>do</em> exist, they are indicative of an underlying reality that differs from our Standard Model of physics?</p><p></p><p>And if so, wouldn't you agree that this different underlying reality is there <em>whether you consider it at the time or not</em>?</p><p></p><p>(I do note that there are versions of the anthropic principle that claim that the underlying reality of the universe <em>is</em> dependent upon whether or not you notice it, but I assume you are not espousing that sort of thing.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 3583753, member: 18280"] Email me at my hotmail account and we'll talk. :) This is, of course, true of real-world physics as well. Tests under controlled circumstances are what is "on camera"; arguably, nothing can be said about what happens when you are not looking. Even in the event that our model of physics was 100% in accord with the underlying reality, we would have no way of knowing that to be the case. A given model cannot be proven to be correct. It can, however, be demonstrated to be incorrect. This is the difference between claiming that the Rules-As-Written is the underlying-reality-type physics of the world and that the Rules-As-Used are. In the event that the RAW [i][b]is[/b][/i][b][/b] the RAU (as is true for fusangite), then the RAW [i][b]is[/b][/i][b][/b] the underlying-reality-type physics of the world. In the event that the RAW is not the RAU, then the RAW is a model-type physics whereas the RAU is the underlying-reality-type physics. Where physics of the underlying-rules-of-reality are concerned, the game is itself a model that relies upon the RAU as the underlying rules of reality, making the claim that "RAU = Underlying-Reality-Type Physics" almost tautological. Where physics as a predictive model is concerned, the RAW provides the predictive model used by the players (and, presumably, the DM), making "RAW = Predictive Model-Type Physics" almost tautological. My understanding of fusangite's challenge is to demonstrate a case where this breaks down. I would extend it thusly: In the case of underlying-rules-of-reality type physics, demonstrate a case where the events of the game world do not follow the Rules As Used. Please note how this differs from the Rules As Used. In the case of predictive model type physics, demonstrate a case where the players should not use the RAW (including house rules) as their predictive model. Please state the predictive model that should be used instead. I do believe that the needs of the game world trump the RAW, but I cannot see any instance where DM or player can trump the RAU. Again, this is almost tautological AFAIK. Yes, but given time to consider it, wouldn't you agree that if The Buzz and The Quickening [i]do[/i] exist, they are indicative of an underlying reality that differs from our Standard Model of physics? And if so, wouldn't you agree that this different underlying reality is there [i]whether you consider it at the time or not[/i]? (I do note that there are versions of the anthropic principle that claim that the underlying reality of the universe [i]is[/i] dependent upon whether or not you notice it, but I assume you are not espousing that sort of thing.) RC [/QUOTE]
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