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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3584189" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Me too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Put the word "well" in from of "explained" and our experiences differ. I think, for example, that our capacity to experience choice is an indication of something missing from our current Standard Models. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> </p><p></p><p>Likewise, I have some real problems with consciousness as it is currently modelled. I imagine that, at some future point, we will have better models.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We differ there, then, too. If I can produce a trick Y that creates the same effect as X, that doesn't mean that Y = X. At the same time, I believe that Randi is guilty of changing the bar on several of his investigations. Which isn't to say that he's wrong in his conclusions, only that he doesn't meet my standards in terms of experiment.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It may bother you less to think about the underlying rules that make up a fictional reality (and, if the author didn't think much about those rules, it might bother you WAY less <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> ) but that doesn't mean that there aren't underlying rules (even if one of the major underlying rules is "I'm making it up as I go").</p><p></p><p>Were I to claim that I had no interest in real-world physics, therefore there were no real world physics, I think the logical fallacy would be apparent to anyone. </p><p></p><p>You say "fictional realities are not internally-consistent universes with a well-defined set of physical laws" but that ignores the obvious: modelling the laws of any reality requires conjecture on the basis of observation. This is true for fictional realities, and it is true for the real universe. In many fictional realities, we don't have the luxury of testing our conjectures. Gaming is different.</p><p></p><p>This is not to say that you cannot happily ignore the relationship between RAW, RAU, and physics. You obviously can. Some people ignore the relationship between observed reality, the philosophy of science, and current models of physics. Ignoring it doesn't mean it isn't there, though.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>.........And between this and the previous, we are back to Square One. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> </p><p></p><p>So, once again, if someone has a good response to fusangite's challenge, I'll entertain it. Otherwise, I'm done.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 3584189, member: 18280"] Me too. Put the word "well" in from of "explained" and our experiences differ. I think, for example, that our capacity to experience choice is an indication of something missing from our current Standard Models. :D Likewise, I have some real problems with consciousness as it is currently modelled. I imagine that, at some future point, we will have better models. We differ there, then, too. If I can produce a trick Y that creates the same effect as X, that doesn't mean that Y = X. At the same time, I believe that Randi is guilty of changing the bar on several of his investigations. Which isn't to say that he's wrong in his conclusions, only that he doesn't meet my standards in terms of experiment. It may bother you less to think about the underlying rules that make up a fictional reality (and, if the author didn't think much about those rules, it might bother you WAY less :lol: ) but that doesn't mean that there aren't underlying rules (even if one of the major underlying rules is "I'm making it up as I go"). Were I to claim that I had no interest in real-world physics, therefore there were no real world physics, I think the logical fallacy would be apparent to anyone. You say "fictional realities are not internally-consistent universes with a well-defined set of physical laws" but that ignores the obvious: modelling the laws of any reality requires conjecture on the basis of observation. This is true for fictional realities, and it is true for the real universe. In many fictional realities, we don't have the luxury of testing our conjectures. Gaming is different. This is not to say that you cannot happily ignore the relationship between RAW, RAU, and physics. You obviously can. Some people ignore the relationship between observed reality, the philosophy of science, and current models of physics. Ignoring it doesn't mean it isn't there, though. .........And between this and the previous, we are back to Square One. :D So, once again, if someone has a good response to fusangite's challenge, I'll entertain it. Otherwise, I'm done. [/QUOTE]
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