Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Feats, don't fail me now! - feat design in 5e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6022013" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>He wouldn't have to cherry-pick feats, he could just say "Don't bother taking a Specialty that doesn't help you in combat." I'm into your idea that feats shouldn't exist if they're not in a Specialty. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>And I don't really think at anyone is opting out of exploration or social mechanics right now. Those mechanics are imbedded in the ability scores. A Fighter has a Charisma score like anyone else, and while they might not have a CHA as high as their STR or CON, they also might have a decent one that doesn't hurt them much. Sorcerers are already pretty good at social stuff, favoring CHA. </p><p></p><p>They're not quite as robust as the combat mechanics now, but it's early in the playtest, and combat seems to be Step 1.</p><p></p><p>I'm not yet persuaded that Specialties should be confined only to combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As far as I can tell, that's kind of what ability scores are for right now. As long as the game assumes a certain ability score modifier spread (-1 to +4 or +5 currently), they can balance the DC's within that range (DC's 9-15 ~ 50% chance). And even the Fighter with 8 Charisma has some chance of talking the guard's ear off (though they should probably aim for the low end of those DC's) and even the bard with the 8 Strength can swing a dagger (but, again, they should probably aim for the squishy folks in the back ranks) and even the Cleric with 8 Dex can sneak into the castle (though it's probably best if they wait for the guards to fall asleep, and maybe take off that armor). </p><p></p><p>Every character has this baseline capacity to contribute in each of the three pillars. They don't need much more than this. </p><p></p><p>Feats, skills, and backgrounds are all meant to be modular. Thus, they are things you can add into the game to augment something. Skills, for instance, gives you a higher granularity on what, exactly, your character is trained in. A background gives you an origin story and some minor bennie. A feat helps define how you do what you do by modifying your options. </p><p></p><p>None of those are necessarily limited to one pillar. You could have a skills system that gave you different ratings for weapon proficiencies (I'm +3 in Axes, but I'm not trained in swords!). You could have a background that helps you in combat ("As a weaponsmith, I have my own custom sword that gives me a +1 to attack rolls!"). You could have a feat that aided you in conversation with NPC's ("My Persuasive feat lets me gain advantage on Charisma checks when I'm making an offer to a friendly NPC!"). </p><p></p><p>Limiting them to one pillar seems kind of unnecessary to me. There's nothing about the design space of a feat that suggests that it must be for combat, or about the design space of a skill that suggests it must be for exploration or about the design space of a background that suggests it must be for interaction. It's not inherent in the mechanics of the thing. So I'm not sure what you gain by that limitation. </p><p></p><p>You can still ban social stuff, be they feats, skills, or backgrounds, simply by choosing to ban social stuff. Advertise your game as a dungeon crawl and note that anyone who takes a background as a baker will summarily have that weak stuff completely ignored. You can also do the other way: say anyone who has a background that grants them a combat bonus isn't going to get to use that a whole lot in this game of royal intrigue. </p><p></p><p>You don't need to ban an entire category of design just because you're opting not to emphasize one of the pillars.</p><p></p><p>I also think it's key to note that having some minimum competency doesn't mean <em>having equal competency</em>. Bards should excel in interaction, regardless of if you're using feats or skills or backgrounds, and maybe they'll comparatively suck at fighting (again). Maybe your rogue that's a tremendous explorer doesn't talk that good to others. That should be OK. Flattened math helps that, since you can have a -1 in something and still contribute. Not everyone needs to have +2 in Everything. It's OK to have a character with +1 Combat, +3 Exploration, +2 Interaction. Or, in NEXT's case so far, -1 Combat, +4 Exploration, +2 Interaction.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6022013, member: 2067"] He wouldn't have to cherry-pick feats, he could just say "Don't bother taking a Specialty that doesn't help you in combat." I'm into your idea that feats shouldn't exist if they're not in a Specialty. :) And I don't really think at anyone is opting out of exploration or social mechanics right now. Those mechanics are imbedded in the ability scores. A Fighter has a Charisma score like anyone else, and while they might not have a CHA as high as their STR or CON, they also might have a decent one that doesn't hurt them much. Sorcerers are already pretty good at social stuff, favoring CHA. They're not quite as robust as the combat mechanics now, but it's early in the playtest, and combat seems to be Step 1. I'm not yet persuaded that Specialties should be confined only to combat. As far as I can tell, that's kind of what ability scores are for right now. As long as the game assumes a certain ability score modifier spread (-1 to +4 or +5 currently), they can balance the DC's within that range (DC's 9-15 ~ 50% chance). And even the Fighter with 8 Charisma has some chance of talking the guard's ear off (though they should probably aim for the low end of those DC's) and even the bard with the 8 Strength can swing a dagger (but, again, they should probably aim for the squishy folks in the back ranks) and even the Cleric with 8 Dex can sneak into the castle (though it's probably best if they wait for the guards to fall asleep, and maybe take off that armor). Every character has this baseline capacity to contribute in each of the three pillars. They don't need much more than this. Feats, skills, and backgrounds are all meant to be modular. Thus, they are things you can add into the game to augment something. Skills, for instance, gives you a higher granularity on what, exactly, your character is trained in. A background gives you an origin story and some minor bennie. A feat helps define how you do what you do by modifying your options. None of those are necessarily limited to one pillar. You could have a skills system that gave you different ratings for weapon proficiencies (I'm +3 in Axes, but I'm not trained in swords!). You could have a background that helps you in combat ("As a weaponsmith, I have my own custom sword that gives me a +1 to attack rolls!"). You could have a feat that aided you in conversation with NPC's ("My Persuasive feat lets me gain advantage on Charisma checks when I'm making an offer to a friendly NPC!"). Limiting them to one pillar seems kind of unnecessary to me. There's nothing about the design space of a feat that suggests that it must be for combat, or about the design space of a skill that suggests it must be for exploration or about the design space of a background that suggests it must be for interaction. It's not inherent in the mechanics of the thing. So I'm not sure what you gain by that limitation. You can still ban social stuff, be they feats, skills, or backgrounds, simply by choosing to ban social stuff. Advertise your game as a dungeon crawl and note that anyone who takes a background as a baker will summarily have that weak stuff completely ignored. You can also do the other way: say anyone who has a background that grants them a combat bonus isn't going to get to use that a whole lot in this game of royal intrigue. You don't need to ban an entire category of design just because you're opting not to emphasize one of the pillars. I also think it's key to note that having some minimum competency doesn't mean [I]having equal competency[/I]. Bards should excel in interaction, regardless of if you're using feats or skills or backgrounds, and maybe they'll comparatively suck at fighting (again). Maybe your rogue that's a tremendous explorer doesn't talk that good to others. That should be OK. Flattened math helps that, since you can have a -1 in something and still contribute. Not everyone needs to have +2 in Everything. It's OK to have a character with +1 Combat, +3 Exploration, +2 Interaction. Or, in NEXT's case so far, -1 Combat, +4 Exploration, +2 Interaction. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Feats, don't fail me now! - feat design in 5e
Top