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<blockquote data-quote="Xeviat" data-source="post: 7141744" data-attributes="member: 57494"><p>Okay, so I sat down to take a look at your GWM changes. First, I need to establish a baseline: what's typically the highest and lowest AC you'll run into by level? This is very tough to define. The "baseline" ACs from the DMG define a 65% hit chance if someone starts with a 16 and ups their attack stat at 4 and 8. But, bounded accuracy means you can use low CR things for a long time. Levels generally limit how high of an AC you'll run into, though.</p><p></p><p>Your changes do something interesting, though, so you MIGHT be onto something. I've compared a super basic, no magic item, level 20 fighter's single attack at Str 20 vs. Str 18 and GWM with a great sword with Great Weapon Fighting. Yes, this is all currently stacked against GWM, because I've added the most to the base weapon without going into magic items.</p><p></p><p>Without advantage, the only time the Great Weapon Master is going to beat Str 20 is against ACs of 14 and lower. With advantage, you're better off at AC 16 and lower. The "standard" AC at this level is 19. Averaged across an AC window of 12 to 25, with the GWM only using the feat when it would increase their own damage (requiring perfect metagame knowledge, so this shouldn't happen in play too often), the GWM deals 0.5 less damage on average than the Str 20, and 0.01 more damage with advantage (advantage negated to standard).</p><p></p><p>But, this is with a +6 proficiency bonus. This collapses immediately with lower. At +6 proficiency, though, your GWM is nearly even with +1 to hit and damage, which is where I'd want it to be. It will be weaker, though, with magic items, as the disadvantage would be more and more painful when your base damage per hit is increased.</p><p></p><p>Rather than disadvantage/negating disadvantage paired with a scaling damage bonus, you either need disadvantage with a fixed damage bonus or a scaling attack penalty with a scaling attack bonus. I'll test out -Prof/+Prof. If your GWM is even with +1 to hit and damage, it's only half a feat, though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xeviat, post: 7141744, member: 57494"] Okay, so I sat down to take a look at your GWM changes. First, I need to establish a baseline: what's typically the highest and lowest AC you'll run into by level? This is very tough to define. The "baseline" ACs from the DMG define a 65% hit chance if someone starts with a 16 and ups their attack stat at 4 and 8. But, bounded accuracy means you can use low CR things for a long time. Levels generally limit how high of an AC you'll run into, though. Your changes do something interesting, though, so you MIGHT be onto something. I've compared a super basic, no magic item, level 20 fighter's single attack at Str 20 vs. Str 18 and GWM with a great sword with Great Weapon Fighting. Yes, this is all currently stacked against GWM, because I've added the most to the base weapon without going into magic items. Without advantage, the only time the Great Weapon Master is going to beat Str 20 is against ACs of 14 and lower. With advantage, you're better off at AC 16 and lower. The "standard" AC at this level is 19. Averaged across an AC window of 12 to 25, with the GWM only using the feat when it would increase their own damage (requiring perfect metagame knowledge, so this shouldn't happen in play too often), the GWM deals 0.5 less damage on average than the Str 20, and 0.01 more damage with advantage (advantage negated to standard). But, this is with a +6 proficiency bonus. This collapses immediately with lower. At +6 proficiency, though, your GWM is nearly even with +1 to hit and damage, which is where I'd want it to be. It will be weaker, though, with magic items, as the disadvantage would be more and more painful when your base damage per hit is increased. Rather than disadvantage/negating disadvantage paired with a scaling damage bonus, you either need disadvantage with a fixed damage bonus or a scaling attack penalty with a scaling attack bonus. I'll test out -Prof/+Prof. If your GWM is even with +1 to hit and damage, it's only half a feat, though. [/QUOTE]
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