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#Feminism Is A Collection of 34 "Nanogames" From Designers Around The World
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<blockquote data-quote="Dualazi" data-source="post: 7715072" data-attributes="member: 6855537"><p>While I guess props to Lipstick for not being heavy handed, it still doesn’t really address the other complaint that I have made that these aren’t games. A game, largely by necessity, needs an objective or scoring metric to denote a winner, or at least a score to later attempt to beat in cooperative titles. Without ranking value judgements and in essence picking a ‘right’ answer, how are these games and not simply debate topics?</p><p></p><p>Also, I’m going to have to ask you to confirm whether or not “Shoutdown to Launch” deals with ‘mansplaining’, because if so, it’s already asserting that this is a thing that exists (it doesn’t). That’s what I mean about rejecting elements of modern feminist theory; it seems from the synopsis that this title predisposes the players to ask the questions of how to deal with this issue as opposed to if the issue exists at all, and there’s no shortage of contention on that front.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Several points here, first, I think this hobby in particular dodges the issue somewhat by virtue of having a huge number of races and fictional cultures that don’t have direct analogues to modern causes, so finding those rich white men cultures might prove more challenging than anticipated. Second, inclusion of something is usually not an explicit denouncement or encouragement of the item in question. I’m sure you could find a society in FR that does have a ruling class of wealthy white humans, but since the setting has numerous cases where this isn’t true and also doesn’t try to claim it as being morally right, then it can’t be accused of pushing an agenda. </p><p></p><p>That’s the problem here for me. It’s not that they’re pushing a feminist agenda, it’s that they’re pushing an agenda at all, which by its nature necessitates dis-incentivizing counter viewpoints. Maybe not all of them are guilty of this, but enough of them will be, and it will always be a constant possibility of future works with similar premise.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How so? Why, in your opinion, will playing these be rewarding? Because if my group and I play one and end up disagreeing with the premise or finding our views unchanged we’re simply going to be annoyed we wasted a night on a boring game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don’t mean to be rude here, but if you (general you, not you specifically 77IM) needed a niche TTRPG to empathize with people then I think you’re too far gone for these to be of much use. Plus, many creative works of all stripes going for empathy tend to try and go for appeals to emotion rather than a substantive and defensible position.</p><p></p><p>Also, “calling BS on your pseudo-intellectual friends” is a huge point in opposition to the product, because it supposes both that these games will show said friend to be ignorant on one of the topics, which they may well not be and simply hold a contrary opinion, but it also sounds like it’s going to cause group drama either way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can probably cross off the first two. I am deeply suspect of the education value of this material and I can only assume councilors will have better and more focused role-playing therapy than playing inter-generational feminists.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, no. It would have received this backlash regardless as long as it had espoused a designed political agenda to pursue. #progressiveNanoGames and #ConservativeNanoGames would have been just as rank to me as this offering, because I can’t think of any worse way to spend my game time than trying to induce political indoctrination to my group.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dualazi, post: 7715072, member: 6855537"] While I guess props to Lipstick for not being heavy handed, it still doesn’t really address the other complaint that I have made that these aren’t games. A game, largely by necessity, needs an objective or scoring metric to denote a winner, or at least a score to later attempt to beat in cooperative titles. Without ranking value judgements and in essence picking a ‘right’ answer, how are these games and not simply debate topics? Also, I’m going to have to ask you to confirm whether or not “Shoutdown to Launch” deals with ‘mansplaining’, because if so, it’s already asserting that this is a thing that exists (it doesn’t). That’s what I mean about rejecting elements of modern feminist theory; it seems from the synopsis that this title predisposes the players to ask the questions of how to deal with this issue as opposed to if the issue exists at all, and there’s no shortage of contention on that front. Several points here, first, I think this hobby in particular dodges the issue somewhat by virtue of having a huge number of races and fictional cultures that don’t have direct analogues to modern causes, so finding those rich white men cultures might prove more challenging than anticipated. Second, inclusion of something is usually not an explicit denouncement or encouragement of the item in question. I’m sure you could find a society in FR that does have a ruling class of wealthy white humans, but since the setting has numerous cases where this isn’t true and also doesn’t try to claim it as being morally right, then it can’t be accused of pushing an agenda. That’s the problem here for me. It’s not that they’re pushing a feminist agenda, it’s that they’re pushing an agenda at all, which by its nature necessitates dis-incentivizing counter viewpoints. Maybe not all of them are guilty of this, but enough of them will be, and it will always be a constant possibility of future works with similar premise. How so? Why, in your opinion, will playing these be rewarding? Because if my group and I play one and end up disagreeing with the premise or finding our views unchanged we’re simply going to be annoyed we wasted a night on a boring game. I don’t mean to be rude here, but if you (general you, not you specifically 77IM) needed a niche TTRPG to empathize with people then I think you’re too far gone for these to be of much use. Plus, many creative works of all stripes going for empathy tend to try and go for appeals to emotion rather than a substantive and defensible position. Also, “calling BS on your pseudo-intellectual friends” is a huge point in opposition to the product, because it supposes both that these games will show said friend to be ignorant on one of the topics, which they may well not be and simply hold a contrary opinion, but it also sounds like it’s going to cause group drama either way. You can probably cross off the first two. I am deeply suspect of the education value of this material and I can only assume councilors will have better and more focused role-playing therapy than playing inter-generational feminists. Yeah, no. It would have received this backlash regardless as long as it had espoused a designed political agenda to pursue. #progressiveNanoGames and #ConservativeNanoGames would have been just as rank to me as this offering, because I can’t think of any worse way to spend my game time than trying to induce political indoctrination to my group. [/QUOTE]
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