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<blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 7449778" data-attributes="member: 6688937"><p>I haven't run into all of these, but I've noticed a few.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No experience, yet, but this seems to be a realm that D&D perpetually finds difficult. My current group is just cresting into 8th. I'm seriously considering converting the game to Fate in a few levels, because D&D play is so weak at higher levels. But we'll see. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is, IMO, the second-worse design mistake in 5e, but its perhaps the most unforgiveable/least understandable. I just don't see any reason why its so wonky. My advice: ignore the encounter guidelines, and to some extent, ignore the monster creation rules. Look at your PCs and eyeball it. (I know, not great advice, but its what I got.) </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not bounded accuracy in specific, AFAICT,....ooh, boy, this has potential to be a tremendous rant about mechanics.</p><p></p><p>IMO, this derives from a fundamental limitation of the D&D combat mechanics.</p><p></p><p>Namely, its next to impossible to mathematically balance the value of a special ability with doing damage. It's just flat out unpredictable how much impact something is going to have. I've seen too many situations in 5e where the critter goes "poof" before it ever gets to use its special abilities. Same critter, different fight, and its a devastating focal point of the whole fight. (Even a couple of saves breaking one way or another can swing a fight's difficulty <u>tremendously</u> IME.) So, whaddya do? You make bags of HP that are mildly flavored.</p><p></p><p>Of course, some of that tactical blandness is because 5e isn't doing all the little pushes and pulls and drags and pliés and pirouettes that 4e did. D&D has often existed in this weird sort of tactical limbo. If you think about it, a classic D&D monster basically is just an AC, HP, attack routine, and <em>maybe</em> a kicker gimmick. The basic tactical decisions are somewhat simplistic, because the original system assumed that much of the mini maneuvering was lost in the minute round and HP. How much tactical nit-pickyness a person needs is variable. Personally, I found that 4e tended to drag me out of fantasy space and into technical X-O space.</p><p></p><p>Now, OTOH, tactical blandness is one of the areas that you can most easily address as a DM. Add maps with all sorts of cover and hiding opportunities. Use teams of enemies with a wide range of abilities. Play rough with visibility, and add water. Seriously, aquatic monsters mess things up. 5e's "easy mode" nature makes it really okay for a DM to lean-in on the party in a big way. (At least, IME.) Although it can be rather swingy, depending on those saves, etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As a friend of mine recently noted while looking at the huge pile of dice our paladin had just rolled...:</p><p></p><p>5e monsters have huge piles of HP because WotC noted that players like rolling lots of dice and dealing big damage. Similarly, monsters can't hit because players don't like taking damage, but when they do its for a lot of damage because the players need to feel tension.</p><p></p><p>Simple solution: crank up the "to-hit" and crank down the damage. Alternatively, add multiple attacks with lower damage ratings. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I haven't seen that personally, but my party is almost all "heavies" (paladin, ranger, fighter, barbarian, and a cleric). I'd imagine, given the way monsters work, that a party with more lower-HP classes would make that more likely. The Cleric character is a replacement for a Wizard who did die (multiple times before it stuck), so I really can't say for sure why you're seeing that.</p><p></p><p>My suggestion would be to build monsters with lower damage values. ?::shrug::</p><p></p><p>More complicated, change the way "death" works. In my game, I implemented a 0 HP rule like this:</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER]</p><p>HP are simply the ability to keep fighting.</p><p></p><p>If you get dropped to 0 HP, or take a hit while at 0 HP. You are incapacitated.</p><p>Roll four dice. Odd results are in your favor. Assign one answer to each of the following questions:</p><p>• Who narrates the result? You or the DM?</p><p>• Did you lose something substantial? (Your weapon, your backpack, an eye?)</p><p>• Are you still conscious?</p><p>• Are you Dying?</p><p>Amputations count as a Trauma below.</p><p></p><p>Trauma</p><p>If you have been Dying, it has an effect on you: Trauma. Pick one, only one time, each. Also kudos for RPing a trauma, you might get an Inspiration Point.</p><p>• Cold: You’re not moved by emotional appeals or social bonds. </p><p>• Haunted: You’re often lost in reverie, reliving past horrors, seeing things. </p><p>• Obsessed: You’re enthralled by one thing: an activity, a person, an ideology. </p><p>• Paranoid: You imagine danger everywhere; you can’t trust others. </p><p>• Reckless: You have little regard for your own safety or best interests. </p><p>• Soft: You lose your edge; you become sentimental, passive, gentle. </p><p>• Unstable: Your emotional state is volatile. You can instantly rage, or fall into despair, act impulsively, or freeze up. </p><p>• Vicious: You seek out opportunities to hurt people, even for no good reason. </p><p>Your fourth Trauma discharges you from the Hero business.</p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>It has added an interesting element to the game, and the fighter has gotten a lot of mileage out of his "Reckless" trauma.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is related to my #1 beef with 5e. I (as GM) can easily tune my encounters to favor either the fighter or paladin by changing the nature of foes faced. Loads of lower-level foes, particularly in waves, and the fighter shines, a few big foes, and the paladin wallops them with smites. But in either case, I have to make sure that they face multiple encounters (or waves) lest the paladin just nova and make the rest of the party feel useless. </p><p></p><p>I really don't know what they were thinking with those guidelines. Few groups can meet so regularly and with good enough attendance to rely on the same party being there each session. The most "natural" solution is to rest between sessions, but putting 6 encounters in one session is just unreasonable, IMO.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ratskinner, post: 7449778, member: 6688937"] I haven't run into all of these, but I've noticed a few. No experience, yet, but this seems to be a realm that D&D perpetually finds difficult. My current group is just cresting into 8th. I'm seriously considering converting the game to Fate in a few levels, because D&D play is so weak at higher levels. But we'll see. This is, IMO, the second-worse design mistake in 5e, but its perhaps the most unforgiveable/least understandable. I just don't see any reason why its so wonky. My advice: ignore the encounter guidelines, and to some extent, ignore the monster creation rules. Look at your PCs and eyeball it. (I know, not great advice, but its what I got.) That's not bounded accuracy in specific, AFAICT,....ooh, boy, this has potential to be a tremendous rant about mechanics. IMO, this derives from a fundamental limitation of the D&D combat mechanics. Namely, its next to impossible to mathematically balance the value of a special ability with doing damage. It's just flat out unpredictable how much impact something is going to have. I've seen too many situations in 5e where the critter goes "poof" before it ever gets to use its special abilities. Same critter, different fight, and its a devastating focal point of the whole fight. (Even a couple of saves breaking one way or another can swing a fight's difficulty [U]tremendously[/U] IME.) So, whaddya do? You make bags of HP that are mildly flavored. Of course, some of that tactical blandness is because 5e isn't doing all the little pushes and pulls and drags and pliés and pirouettes that 4e did. D&D has often existed in this weird sort of tactical limbo. If you think about it, a classic D&D monster basically is just an AC, HP, attack routine, and [I]maybe[/I] a kicker gimmick. The basic tactical decisions are somewhat simplistic, because the original system assumed that much of the mini maneuvering was lost in the minute round and HP. How much tactical nit-pickyness a person needs is variable. Personally, I found that 4e tended to drag me out of fantasy space and into technical X-O space. Now, OTOH, tactical blandness is one of the areas that you can most easily address as a DM. Add maps with all sorts of cover and hiding opportunities. Use teams of enemies with a wide range of abilities. Play rough with visibility, and add water. Seriously, aquatic monsters mess things up. 5e's "easy mode" nature makes it really okay for a DM to lean-in on the party in a big way. (At least, IME.) Although it can be rather swingy, depending on those saves, etc. As a friend of mine recently noted while looking at the huge pile of dice our paladin had just rolled...: 5e monsters have huge piles of HP because WotC noted that players like rolling lots of dice and dealing big damage. Similarly, monsters can't hit because players don't like taking damage, but when they do its for a lot of damage because the players need to feel tension. Simple solution: crank up the "to-hit" and crank down the damage. Alternatively, add multiple attacks with lower damage ratings. I haven't seen that personally, but my party is almost all "heavies" (paladin, ranger, fighter, barbarian, and a cleric). I'd imagine, given the way monsters work, that a party with more lower-HP classes would make that more likely. The Cleric character is a replacement for a Wizard who did die (multiple times before it stuck), so I really can't say for sure why you're seeing that. My suggestion would be to build monsters with lower damage values. ?::shrug:: More complicated, change the way "death" works. In my game, I implemented a 0 HP rule like this: [SPOILER] HP are simply the ability to keep fighting. If you get dropped to 0 HP, or take a hit while at 0 HP. You are incapacitated. Roll four dice. Odd results are in your favor. Assign one answer to each of the following questions: • Who narrates the result? You or the DM? • Did you lose something substantial? (Your weapon, your backpack, an eye?) • Are you still conscious? • Are you Dying? Amputations count as a Trauma below. Trauma If you have been Dying, it has an effect on you: Trauma. Pick one, only one time, each. Also kudos for RPing a trauma, you might get an Inspiration Point. • Cold: You’re not moved by emotional appeals or social bonds. • Haunted: You’re often lost in reverie, reliving past horrors, seeing things. • Obsessed: You’re enthralled by one thing: an activity, a person, an ideology. • Paranoid: You imagine danger everywhere; you can’t trust others. • Reckless: You have little regard for your own safety or best interests. • Soft: You lose your edge; you become sentimental, passive, gentle. • Unstable: Your emotional state is volatile. You can instantly rage, or fall into despair, act impulsively, or freeze up. • Vicious: You seek out opportunities to hurt people, even for no good reason. Your fourth Trauma discharges you from the Hero business. [/SPOILER] It has added an interesting element to the game, and the fighter has gotten a lot of mileage out of his "Reckless" trauma. This is related to my #1 beef with 5e. I (as GM) can easily tune my encounters to favor either the fighter or paladin by changing the nature of foes faced. Loads of lower-level foes, particularly in waves, and the fighter shines, a few big foes, and the paladin wallops them with smites. But in either case, I have to make sure that they face multiple encounters (or waves) lest the paladin just nova and make the rest of the party feel useless. I really don't know what they were thinking with those guidelines. Few groups can meet so regularly and with good enough attendance to rely on the same party being there each session. The most "natural" solution is to rest between sessions, but putting 6 encounters in one session is just unreasonable, IMO. [/QUOTE]
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