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Fighters vs. Spellcasters (a case for fighters.)
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<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6186182" data-attributes="member: 17106"><p>That's a bit naive though. They do gain more spells, but their existing spells don't increase in DC and become less useful over time. And some of those increases in the power of a spell that do come with level (like range) are marginally useful at best. I mean, if we said every fighter level added 5 ft. to the range increment of his ranged weapons, that would hardly mean anything.</p><p></p><p>More importantly, it neglects the practical consideration that using spells effectively requires a lot of foresight and/or preparation, while a fighter is pretty much always optimally ready to act.</p><p></p><p>It also neglects the way that defenses scale. Saves scale at either an equivalent rate to highest spell DC or slightly slower, but AC does not scale at all. Magic items to boost saves are much cheaper. In 2e, characters become virtually immune to magic at high levels. In 3e, this is less pronounced, but it still becomes more difficult for high-level spellcasters to use any direct effects.</p><p></p><p>Most of the power that a spellcaster has comes from unusual effects that are hard to represent with numbers. Being able to change shape or teleport are very useful things.</p><p></p><p>Hard to say that this is a problem. After all, a wizard that couldn't rearrange reality, or a fighter that could, would both be complete failures in achieving the basic concept of the class.</p><p></p><p>In the RAW, there is indeed a significant mismatch between the classes. Played with the same level of skill and optimisation, the Wizard will win (except perhaps at the lowest levels). And I'm not sure that's fixable without radically altering the game. As far as I can see, it's something that the group is just going to have to resolve for themselves, either by requiring the player of the Wizard to hold himself back, or by the DM making sure to give the Fighter extra chances to shine.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 6186182, member: 17106"] That's a bit naive though. They do gain more spells, but their existing spells don't increase in DC and become less useful over time. And some of those increases in the power of a spell that do come with level (like range) are marginally useful at best. I mean, if we said every fighter level added 5 ft. to the range increment of his ranged weapons, that would hardly mean anything. More importantly, it neglects the practical consideration that using spells effectively requires a lot of foresight and/or preparation, while a fighter is pretty much always optimally ready to act. It also neglects the way that defenses scale. Saves scale at either an equivalent rate to highest spell DC or slightly slower, but AC does not scale at all. Magic items to boost saves are much cheaper. In 2e, characters become virtually immune to magic at high levels. In 3e, this is less pronounced, but it still becomes more difficult for high-level spellcasters to use any direct effects. Most of the power that a spellcaster has comes from unusual effects that are hard to represent with numbers. Being able to change shape or teleport are very useful things. Hard to say that this is a problem. After all, a wizard that couldn't rearrange reality, or a fighter that could, would both be complete failures in achieving the basic concept of the class. In the RAW, there is indeed a significant mismatch between the classes. Played with the same level of skill and optimisation, the Wizard will win (except perhaps at the lowest levels). And I'm not sure that's fixable without radically altering the game. As far as I can see, it's something that the group is just going to have to resolve for themselves, either by requiring the player of the Wizard to hold himself back, or by the DM making sure to give the Fighter extra chances to shine. [/QUOTE]
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