Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Fightin' 101
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="clark411" data-source="post: 1145170" data-attributes="member: 4768"><p>0. With your DM, Determine the OK Levels of Cinema and Tactics.</p><p>No matter what advice you take, the most important thing to do is decide ahead of time what's good for you and your dm (or you and your players). Frankly, if they don't want a wargame, and they aren't all tactics-crazy, then that's something to be adapted to. If they do and simply aren't able to form plans, then help em. Also, for players, realize that Optimal Efficiency isn't always the most fun you can have in combat. The second that's all that matters, something's been lost in yer gaming (as far as I'm concerned.)</p><p></p><p>So... figure out, as a group, what's good and what isn't. Hitting every BBEG with a bolo for an auto trip the moment he ends his evil-talk, may not be cool. Rolling around like ninnies in a grapple, reducing everything to shaving inches off HP, may not be Wanted. Likewise- making heroes out of tactically inept do-gooders who shouldn't really be anywhere near combat can also be totally sucky. At some point, if luck fails you, there'll still be the issue of how the bards can sing your praises if you never beat an opponent with resounding effect.</p><p></p><p>1. One Target Per Party. </p><p>AKA Concentration of Fire. This has been gone over enough.</p><p></p><p>2. Take out Finger Wigglers. </p><p>If you've got the monk silenced, he better be using his jump and tumble abilities to soar past the mook padding to get to the cleric and / or wizard. Guards, etc, are there to do one thing primarily- give the casters one or two more rounds to cast. Beyond that.. they'll do perhaps a little damage to you- but nothing like the disintegrates etc coming out of the Hextorian/Red Mage/Lich.</p><p></p><p>3. In Missile Combat, Movement Control is King.</p><p>I cannot tell you how many times I've seen archery based rangers backpedalling into who-knows-what as they try to keep out of melee range with things they should be Entangling, and how mages find themselves backed into walls or hit by arrows in dungeons where webbing could come in handy. Heavily armored targets with low dex, penalty modifiers, poor reflexes and bad balance scores DEMAND you hit them with Grease. Use those spells, tanglefoot bags, etc.</p><p></p><p>4. When In Doubt, Grapple lone NPCs</p><p>Now, in some cases this is a bad idea. Creatures that have powerful, natural attacks, or are far larger than you, or have more than two legs, are poor candidates for a grapple. However, that guy with the greatsword is fair game, as is the combat caster making defensive casting checks. It's best to pig-pile as well, so that if one person fails to maintain a pin, the next person can try as can the next. So many actions will be taken up by the opponent, that you can accomplish your objective (taking the gold, killing the person in question) at something that comes strikingly close to a "leisurely pace."</p><p></p><p>5. Ambushes Require Preparation... and DM acceptance</p><p>Sometimes players are so "We must Go Here and Do that" that they never consider the idea of preparing their own traps and things. They assume that you have to walk about to find things to hit, and that you must always go into the bad guy's dungeon to get him. Also, DMs can have a tendency to make anything other than overt questing and delving completely fruitless. Try to avoid both these scenarios. PCs... lure out your targets. Those who can't hide well- make ditches for cover and then conceal with leaves/branches. DMs... reward this, it's just as much "play" as if they were going to do things your way in the dungeon you spent last night making.</p><p></p><p>6. Warhorses Are A Free Level of Warrior</p><p>Well... almost. Riding on a good warhorse provides an additional +1 to hit due to higher ground. That is Great at low levels, and still nice at high levels. Also, warhorses tend to make retreat viable.</p><p></p><p>7. Feel Free to Delay and Refocus</p><p>Sometimes the most powerful thing a party can do is delay or refocus in a manner which makes them all go at roughly the same time in initiative. Controlling the flow of initiative is vastly important in a game of tactics. Monsters and well, DMs, have a harder time reacting properly to 4 or 5 actions happening all at once, rather than seeing the round unfold over a few minutes. This in some way negates the prep made possible by the various alarms you've activated, and also nullifies the homefield advantage that comes with the lair environment.</p><p></p><p>8. Have a Party Definition of Acceptable Casualties</p><p>There's no such thing as a Lonely Corpse. Sounds heartless that a group would think as such, but if you're reading this to avoid TPKs, you have to start thinking about this. If you refuse to withdraw with one person on the ground, as you won't possibly be able to retreat with him in tow, then expect to all drop dead. If you say, you aren't leaving without so and so, and the only way to get so and so is to kill the guy that killed so and so with two hits in one round, then expect to not leave at all. Dependence on luck is fine, dependence on friends is fine- just decide which you will do... and Bring Secondaries either way.</p><p></p><p>9. Holy Water? Check. Fire? Check.</p><p>If you can't produce acid, fire, or holy water rapidly... expect to eventually be in great danger from something that requires the above to be killed. If you do not have a bludgeoning weapon And a piercer And a slashing weapon, expect to have a hard time. While the same can be said for holy, unholy, lawful, and chaotic weaponry (maybe even a little epic or magic thrown in for good measure)... finding a way to afford it isn't as much about fighting tactics as it is about good spending habits.</p><p></p><p>10. Staggered Marching Orders are Good</p><p>Unless you're in the proverbial 10 foot wide corridor, there's no real reason to stick so close together, especially at low levels. The decision to fan out can mean the guy with the wand of Lightning Bolts can only hit 2 of you rather than all 4, or the ambush may be sprung with some of you on the periphery of it (if it springs at all).</p><p></p><p>11. Argue the validity of your Tactics</p><p>Sometimes, a DM will simply negate your tactics by instinct if you don't make it clear that what you are doing, and how the enemy is reacting, totally defies logic. A crib note that reads "The combat starts with the 6 bandits surrounding the PCs" may make little sense if the PCs aren't all on the road as expected. The bandits shouldn't retroactively expand their ambush. Likewise, if you've got a scout class, determine roughly the range you should be able to spot/hear things in various terrains and conditions (and judge for hide / listen as well). Believe it or not, getting a 20 on the listen check and starting the encounter with the DrumSnake at 10 ft's distance isn't appropriate necessarily... it's laziness on the DM's part to properly adjudicate your check. Likewise, the hill giant coming in at 15 ft after you rolled a 16 to Spot is probably not appropriate as well.</p><p>This in no way means that your tactics should involve PC vs DM tension... but you should know your capabilities, and state them. It's no different from saying your Attack of 20 should hit the AC 15 creature. If the spot check means, given all conditions, that you should see the monster at 250 feet and the DM puts him at 30 ft... Say Something. The mantle of DM may say "Rule 0, I'm Right" but the mantle is placed upon him by the PCs, who also have a rule 0 of their own "We are in your campaign because we believe you can fairly adjudicate situations, and your aspirations and decisions, while perhaps not always grounded in the exact measure of the rules, are based on a genuine desire to adhere to their spirit." or... simply put, "Everything shouldn't come in at Charge Distance simply because you want them to." ^_^</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clark411, post: 1145170, member: 4768"] 0. With your DM, Determine the OK Levels of Cinema and Tactics. No matter what advice you take, the most important thing to do is decide ahead of time what's good for you and your dm (or you and your players). Frankly, if they don't want a wargame, and they aren't all tactics-crazy, then that's something to be adapted to. If they do and simply aren't able to form plans, then help em. Also, for players, realize that Optimal Efficiency isn't always the most fun you can have in combat. The second that's all that matters, something's been lost in yer gaming (as far as I'm concerned.) So... figure out, as a group, what's good and what isn't. Hitting every BBEG with a bolo for an auto trip the moment he ends his evil-talk, may not be cool. Rolling around like ninnies in a grapple, reducing everything to shaving inches off HP, may not be Wanted. Likewise- making heroes out of tactically inept do-gooders who shouldn't really be anywhere near combat can also be totally sucky. At some point, if luck fails you, there'll still be the issue of how the bards can sing your praises if you never beat an opponent with resounding effect. 1. One Target Per Party. AKA Concentration of Fire. This has been gone over enough. 2. Take out Finger Wigglers. If you've got the monk silenced, he better be using his jump and tumble abilities to soar past the mook padding to get to the cleric and / or wizard. Guards, etc, are there to do one thing primarily- give the casters one or two more rounds to cast. Beyond that.. they'll do perhaps a little damage to you- but nothing like the disintegrates etc coming out of the Hextorian/Red Mage/Lich. 3. In Missile Combat, Movement Control is King. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen archery based rangers backpedalling into who-knows-what as they try to keep out of melee range with things they should be Entangling, and how mages find themselves backed into walls or hit by arrows in dungeons where webbing could come in handy. Heavily armored targets with low dex, penalty modifiers, poor reflexes and bad balance scores DEMAND you hit them with Grease. Use those spells, tanglefoot bags, etc. 4. When In Doubt, Grapple lone NPCs Now, in some cases this is a bad idea. Creatures that have powerful, natural attacks, or are far larger than you, or have more than two legs, are poor candidates for a grapple. However, that guy with the greatsword is fair game, as is the combat caster making defensive casting checks. It's best to pig-pile as well, so that if one person fails to maintain a pin, the next person can try as can the next. So many actions will be taken up by the opponent, that you can accomplish your objective (taking the gold, killing the person in question) at something that comes strikingly close to a "leisurely pace." 5. Ambushes Require Preparation... and DM acceptance Sometimes players are so "We must Go Here and Do that" that they never consider the idea of preparing their own traps and things. They assume that you have to walk about to find things to hit, and that you must always go into the bad guy's dungeon to get him. Also, DMs can have a tendency to make anything other than overt questing and delving completely fruitless. Try to avoid both these scenarios. PCs... lure out your targets. Those who can't hide well- make ditches for cover and then conceal with leaves/branches. DMs... reward this, it's just as much "play" as if they were going to do things your way in the dungeon you spent last night making. 6. Warhorses Are A Free Level of Warrior Well... almost. Riding on a good warhorse provides an additional +1 to hit due to higher ground. That is Great at low levels, and still nice at high levels. Also, warhorses tend to make retreat viable. 7. Feel Free to Delay and Refocus Sometimes the most powerful thing a party can do is delay or refocus in a manner which makes them all go at roughly the same time in initiative. Controlling the flow of initiative is vastly important in a game of tactics. Monsters and well, DMs, have a harder time reacting properly to 4 or 5 actions happening all at once, rather than seeing the round unfold over a few minutes. This in some way negates the prep made possible by the various alarms you've activated, and also nullifies the homefield advantage that comes with the lair environment. 8. Have a Party Definition of Acceptable Casualties There's no such thing as a Lonely Corpse. Sounds heartless that a group would think as such, but if you're reading this to avoid TPKs, you have to start thinking about this. If you refuse to withdraw with one person on the ground, as you won't possibly be able to retreat with him in tow, then expect to all drop dead. If you say, you aren't leaving without so and so, and the only way to get so and so is to kill the guy that killed so and so with two hits in one round, then expect to not leave at all. Dependence on luck is fine, dependence on friends is fine- just decide which you will do... and Bring Secondaries either way. 9. Holy Water? Check. Fire? Check. If you can't produce acid, fire, or holy water rapidly... expect to eventually be in great danger from something that requires the above to be killed. If you do not have a bludgeoning weapon And a piercer And a slashing weapon, expect to have a hard time. While the same can be said for holy, unholy, lawful, and chaotic weaponry (maybe even a little epic or magic thrown in for good measure)... finding a way to afford it isn't as much about fighting tactics as it is about good spending habits. 10. Staggered Marching Orders are Good Unless you're in the proverbial 10 foot wide corridor, there's no real reason to stick so close together, especially at low levels. The decision to fan out can mean the guy with the wand of Lightning Bolts can only hit 2 of you rather than all 4, or the ambush may be sprung with some of you on the periphery of it (if it springs at all). 11. Argue the validity of your Tactics Sometimes, a DM will simply negate your tactics by instinct if you don't make it clear that what you are doing, and how the enemy is reacting, totally defies logic. A crib note that reads "The combat starts with the 6 bandits surrounding the PCs" may make little sense if the PCs aren't all on the road as expected. The bandits shouldn't retroactively expand their ambush. Likewise, if you've got a scout class, determine roughly the range you should be able to spot/hear things in various terrains and conditions (and judge for hide / listen as well). Believe it or not, getting a 20 on the listen check and starting the encounter with the DrumSnake at 10 ft's distance isn't appropriate necessarily... it's laziness on the DM's part to properly adjudicate your check. Likewise, the hill giant coming in at 15 ft after you rolled a 16 to Spot is probably not appropriate as well. This in no way means that your tactics should involve PC vs DM tension... but you should know your capabilities, and state them. It's no different from saying your Attack of 20 should hit the AC 15 creature. If the spot check means, given all conditions, that you should see the monster at 250 feet and the DM puts him at 30 ft... Say Something. The mantle of DM may say "Rule 0, I'm Right" but the mantle is placed upon him by the PCs, who also have a rule 0 of their own "We are in your campaign because we believe you can fairly adjudicate situations, and your aspirations and decisions, while perhaps not always grounded in the exact measure of the rules, are based on a genuine desire to adhere to their spirit." or... simply put, "Everything shouldn't come in at Charge Distance simply because you want them to." ^_^ [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Fightin' 101
Top