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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Firearms in 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="AngeltheTechrat" data-source="post: 4657193" data-attributes="member: 82200"><p>Before saying how I think Guns should be handled, I first want to talk about how I think other projectile weapons should be handled. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I have a lot of problems with the existing ranged weapons already. Some of them are problems I've had for a long time, though.</p><p> </p><p>I have problems with the Sling and Hand Crossbow being Load Free, and even with the Crossbow being Load Minor. They just aren't that quick to load (unless you're Christopher Lambert's Beowulf..). </p><p> </p><p>I have no problem with Longbow and Shortbow being Load Free, because you don't actually "load" them (unless we're talking about more modern compound bows where you have to slide the arrow through a guide in the bow itself, which we aren't).</p><p> </p><p>I have a problem with the Hand Crossbow having a lower damage than both Bows, and I have a problem with the Crossbow having a lower damage than the Longbow. Crossbows have more force behind them. If you practice with a bow, you often fire into targets on the front of bales of hay. Why? Because arrows fired from a bow will stick in hay. If you practice with a Crossbow (or gun) you fire into targets hanging on or ub front of cork or fiber-board or even wood. Why? Because bolts (or bullets) would go through hay. (Yes I know this isn't hard and fast for all uses, but it's essentialy true, especialy with the style of weapons we're speaking of. Again, we're not talking about compound bows with a harder draw.)</p><p> </p><p>I have a problem with the Sling and Hand Crossbow being stat clones of eachother, save that the Sling is 1/25th the cost and weighless. WHAT?! Why should anyone ever buy a Hand Crossbow?</p><p> </p><p>One I've had for a LONG time, is that I have a problem with a Sling being a Simple weapon. I can use a bow, and I probably won't hit the bull's-eye, but the arrow WILL wind up in the general vicinity of the target. I can fire a Crossbow, likely with the same or slightly better results. But if I'm whirling a stone around in a sling and I let it fly, I would be damned lucky to hit the broad side of a barn ...from the INside. In fact, I'd say I only have a 1-in-4 chance of hitting the desired wall.</p><p> </p><p>Why are Crossbow and Hand Crossbow the same price?</p><p> </p><p>-----</p><p> </p><p>A larger Crossbow is harder to cock than a Hand Crossbow. Sometimes even an additional tool is needed, but we'll assume Heavy Crossbows like that aren't being addressed here. So yes. I think a Crossbow should have a longer reload than a Hand Crossbow. That is sound. </p><p> </p><p>I think Sling should be a Millitary weapon, and if Clerics, Barbarians, and Halflings MUST have them, then add them to the Class or Racial weapon proficiencies.</p><p> </p><p>I think the Hand Crossbow should have similar damage to the Longbow and certainly higher than the Shortbow, and that the Crossbow should have a higher damage than the Longbow. I think the ranges should be likewise. </p><p> </p><p>I think the Hand Crossbow should be Load Minor and the Crossbow should be Load Move.</p><p> </p><p>This is how the ranged weapons in the PHB look now:</p><p> </p><p><img src="http://thundershot.net/thex/files/ranged_131.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p> </p><p><strong>This</strong> is how I honestly think it <strong>should</strong> look: </p><p> </p><p><img src="http://thundershot.net/thex/files/ranged2_174.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p> </p><p>And this is how I think firearms should look, you know.. if the rest of the ranged weapons were more sensible:</p><p> </p><p><img src="http://thundershot.net/thex/files/rangedg_118.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p> </p><p><strong>Firearm Bullets (20): 1 gp - 1 lb</strong></p><p><strong>Gunpowder (20 charges): 15 gp - 2 lb</strong></p><p><strong>Firearm Cleaning Kit: 5 gp - 1 lb</strong></p><p> </p><p>A gun that is used and not cleaned after an extended rest loses its Proficiency bonus and jams on a natural attack roll of 1 until it is cleaned.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AngeltheTechrat, post: 4657193, member: 82200"] Before saying how I think Guns should be handled, I first want to talk about how I think other projectile weapons should be handled. I have a lot of problems with the existing ranged weapons already. Some of them are problems I've had for a long time, though. I have problems with the Sling and Hand Crossbow being Load Free, and even with the Crossbow being Load Minor. They just aren't that quick to load (unless you're Christopher Lambert's Beowulf..). I have no problem with Longbow and Shortbow being Load Free, because you don't actually "load" them (unless we're talking about more modern compound bows where you have to slide the arrow through a guide in the bow itself, which we aren't). I have a problem with the Hand Crossbow having a lower damage than both Bows, and I have a problem with the Crossbow having a lower damage than the Longbow. Crossbows have more force behind them. If you practice with a bow, you often fire into targets on the front of bales of hay. Why? Because arrows fired from a bow will stick in hay. If you practice with a Crossbow (or gun) you fire into targets hanging on or ub front of cork or fiber-board or even wood. Why? Because bolts (or bullets) would go through hay. (Yes I know this isn't hard and fast for all uses, but it's essentialy true, especialy with the style of weapons we're speaking of. Again, we're not talking about compound bows with a harder draw.) I have a problem with the Sling and Hand Crossbow being stat clones of eachother, save that the Sling is 1/25th the cost and weighless. WHAT?! Why should anyone ever buy a Hand Crossbow? One I've had for a LONG time, is that I have a problem with a Sling being a Simple weapon. I can use a bow, and I probably won't hit the bull's-eye, but the arrow WILL wind up in the general vicinity of the target. I can fire a Crossbow, likely with the same or slightly better results. But if I'm whirling a stone around in a sling and I let it fly, I would be damned lucky to hit the broad side of a barn ...from the INside. In fact, I'd say I only have a 1-in-4 chance of hitting the desired wall. Why are Crossbow and Hand Crossbow the same price? ----- A larger Crossbow is harder to cock than a Hand Crossbow. Sometimes even an additional tool is needed, but we'll assume Heavy Crossbows like that aren't being addressed here. So yes. I think a Crossbow should have a longer reload than a Hand Crossbow. That is sound. I think Sling should be a Millitary weapon, and if Clerics, Barbarians, and Halflings MUST have them, then add them to the Class or Racial weapon proficiencies. I think the Hand Crossbow should have similar damage to the Longbow and certainly higher than the Shortbow, and that the Crossbow should have a higher damage than the Longbow. I think the ranges should be likewise. I think the Hand Crossbow should be Load Minor and the Crossbow should be Load Move. This is how the ranged weapons in the PHB look now: [IMG]http://thundershot.net/thex/files/ranged_131.jpg[/IMG] [B]This[/B] is how I honestly think it [B]should[/B] look: [IMG]http://thundershot.net/thex/files/ranged2_174.jpg[/IMG] And this is how I think firearms should look, you know.. if the rest of the ranged weapons were more sensible: [IMG]http://thundershot.net/thex/files/rangedg_118.jpg[/IMG] [B]Firearm Bullets (20): 1 gp - 1 lb[/B] [B]Gunpowder (20 charges): 15 gp - 2 lb[/B] [B]Firearm Cleaning Kit: 5 gp - 1 lb[/B] A gun that is used and not cleaned after an extended rest loses its Proficiency bonus and jams on a natural attack roll of 1 until it is cleaned. [/QUOTE]
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