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<blockquote data-quote="Sir Brennen" data-source="post: 4281532" data-attributes="member: 553"><p>Inititially, the idea of Att vs. Reflex seemed intriguing, but thinking about it a bit more, there's a few things I don't like about it. First, it changes every power which a class might use with the gun that normal is against AC, possibly leading to some balance problems, especially if, as mentioned above, a Prof bonus is added on top. Second, if we're getting "real world", a crossbow has a much penetration power as a flintlock, yet a crossbow doesn't fire against Ref. Lastly, we're <em>not</em> talking about the real world here. I don't neccessarily want a simple weapon that ignores the AC of dragons and earth elementals.</p><p></p><p>Having a gun be essentially an encounter power doesn't work for me, either. What's to stop a character from simply toting around multiple guns, thereby increasing their number of per encounter powers?</p><p></p><p>Many people suggest also making price a balancing factor, essentially making guns magic weapons as far as cost goes. I'm strongly against this as well. I'm in a campaign where I have a gun-slinging character that I want to be able to replicate in 4E. The goal would be to essentially allow him to stack up against, say, a ranger, in terms of damage output and effective use of powers. He should <em><strong>not</strong></em> be gimped by prices which make him unable to afford his main weapon for two or three levels. Nor should something like the reload rate render him useless for entire rounds during the battle, while everyone else continues to do cool stuff. On the other hand, his choice of weapon shouldn't make him <em><strong>better</strong></em> than the longbow-using ranger.</p><p></p><p>This character archetype should be, IMHO, the baseline to shot for when adding guns into the game. If a character wanted to focus on using firearms, he should be just as viable as any other character, without being overpowered. The 4E philosophy should be kept in mind, focusing on how fun it would be to play such a character, not how closely you've modeled antique firearms in the real world.</p><p></p><p>I think we need a better understanding of what makes a weapon "balanced" in the new edition. Comparing <em>and balancing</em> a pistol with the crossbow is probably the best place to start. (I don't have the stats infront of me to give specifics). </p><p></p><p>You've got the following factors to work with:</p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Prof bonus</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Damage</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Range</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Load Time</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Special (i.e., High Crit)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Category</p><p>Modifying one favorably means dropping one down a notch. For instance, adding High Crit seems reasonable, but then either damage should drop a die or the weapon should be moved up to Martial.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I think the following would work:</p><p></p><p><strong>Pistol:</strong> same stats as shortbow, but with 1/2 the range, High Crit, Off-hand and Minor Action reload properties. </p><p></p><p><strong>Rifle:</strong> same stats as longbow, but with High Crit and Move Action reload.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sir Brennen, post: 4281532, member: 553"] Inititially, the idea of Att vs. Reflex seemed intriguing, but thinking about it a bit more, there's a few things I don't like about it. First, it changes every power which a class might use with the gun that normal is against AC, possibly leading to some balance problems, especially if, as mentioned above, a Prof bonus is added on top. Second, if we're getting "real world", a crossbow has a much penetration power as a flintlock, yet a crossbow doesn't fire against Ref. Lastly, we're [i]not[/i] talking about the real world here. I don't neccessarily want a simple weapon that ignores the AC of dragons and earth elementals. Having a gun be essentially an encounter power doesn't work for me, either. What's to stop a character from simply toting around multiple guns, thereby increasing their number of per encounter powers? Many people suggest also making price a balancing factor, essentially making guns magic weapons as far as cost goes. I'm strongly against this as well. I'm in a campaign where I have a gun-slinging character that I want to be able to replicate in 4E. The goal would be to essentially allow him to stack up against, say, a ranger, in terms of damage output and effective use of powers. He should [i][b]not[/b][/i] be gimped by prices which make him unable to afford his main weapon for two or three levels. Nor should something like the reload rate render him useless for entire rounds during the battle, while everyone else continues to do cool stuff. On the other hand, his choice of weapon shouldn't make him [i][b]better[/b][/i] than the longbow-using ranger. This character archetype should be, IMHO, the baseline to shot for when adding guns into the game. If a character wanted to focus on using firearms, he should be just as viable as any other character, without being overpowered. The 4E philosophy should be kept in mind, focusing on how fun it would be to play such a character, not how closely you've modeled antique firearms in the real world. I think we need a better understanding of what makes a weapon "balanced" in the new edition. Comparing [i]and balancing[/i] a pistol with the crossbow is probably the best place to start. (I don't have the stats infront of me to give specifics). You've got the following factors to work with: [indent]Prof bonus Damage Range Load Time Special (i.e., High Crit) Category[/indent] Modifying one favorably means dropping one down a notch. For instance, adding High Crit seems reasonable, but then either damage should drop a die or the weapon should be moved up to Martial. Personally, I think the following would work: [b]Pistol:[/b] same stats as shortbow, but with 1/2 the range, High Crit, Off-hand and Minor Action reload properties. [b]Rifle:[/b] same stats as longbow, but with High Crit and Move Action reload. [/QUOTE]
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