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first time cleric needs to survive
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<blockquote data-quote="nittanytbone" data-source="post: 3498916" data-attributes="member: 35709"><p>Agreed... And that's why I suggested DMM Quicken, as well. It is often seen as much less abuseable, and besides, at 13th level, Quicken Spell is handy to have. Quickened Divine Favor is a staple of high level clerics.</p><p></p><p>The OP stated that "any books were allowed," the thread title was help me "Survive," and he mentioned there would be little gold. I took that to mean that he was entering a tough campaign and needed a reasonably strong build, so I threw out the optimized standard. DMM Persistent is pretty much THE way to go above level 7 if its not banned.</p><p></p><p>It is somewhat complicated, but I'd prefer to not patronize the OP. And honestly, its not that bad. You can reduce all those feats to say: "Make Righteous Might and Divine Power last for 24 hours or until dispelled by spending the spell slots and all of your turn attempts." Once the OP gets more comfortable with the spell system he can start trying different spells.</p><p></p><p>In any event, here are my "simpler" rules for "How to Not Screw up a Cleric:"</p><p></p><p><em>1) Thou Shalt Not Lose Caster Levels. Almost no advantage that can be gained via multiclassing is NOT COMPARABLE. Trust me.</em></p><p><em> Corollary: Thou Shalt Not Play a race with ECL+1 or greater. Losing the caster level and HD is NOT made up for by your 133T Aasimar abilities.</em></p><p><em> Corollary: Thou Shalt Not Apply a template with ECL+1 or greater. Being a werebear is not worth it for a caster.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>2) Thou Shalt Start with 15 WIS, and drop all stat boosts every four levels into Wisdom. This is necessary if you want to cast all your higher level spells on time. Plus, higher wisdom means more bonus spells = more stat buffs (Bull's STR, etc) to buff your other ability scores.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>3) Thou Shalt Carefully Select Thy God. Pick a deity or belief/alignment that you can RP and have fun with, otherwise thy DM shall surely smite you for heresy.</em></p><p></p><p>I think as long as you follow those simple guidelines, you'll be fine. A totally unoptimized cleric is still stronger than, say, a Fighter 13.</p><p></p><p>Here's a few extra "intermediate" tips:</p><p></p><p>- A Cleric's most precious commodity is his FEATS. Clerics get no bonus feats. Therefore, being a Human is particularly advantageous as the bonus feat and skill points are quite attractive.</p><p></p><p>- Certain Feats are TRAPS. Avoid them at all costs. They include: Toughness (Friends Don't Let Friends Take Toughness -- Select Improved Toughness from the Complete Warrior Instead), Combat Casting (Take Skill Focus: Concentration instead), Improved Turning (at low levels, stuff is easily turned, at high levels, everything has Turn Resistance and unless you're super optimized for turning its useless), Martial Weapon Proficiency (almost never worth it, and there are better ways to get it such as PrCs or the War Domain), Weapon Focus (Usually not a great idea for most clerics, and locks you into a certain weapon), Brew Potion (Crafting Wondrous Items is much, much better).</p><p></p><p>- Skills: You're short on skill points. The only mandatory skill is Concentration so that you can cast your spells without interruption. Beyond that, at least 5 ranks in Knowledge Religion lets you empower your turn undead a little bit. Having a +5 modifier in Heal (including your high wisdom) lets you take 10 on most heal checks and pass.</p><p></p><p>- Get something to do with your Turn Undead attempts. Unless you're playing in Ravenloft, 90% of the time there will be no serious undead threat and one of your primary class abilities goes unused. Furthermore, at higher levels, many of the undead have turn resistance, are bolstered by high priests, etc. Because the turn mechanics are based on HD, a low-CR but high-HD monster like a giant elephant skeleton is nearly impossible to turn. So, you want something else to do with your Turn attempts.</p><p></p><p>Enter Divine Feats. Divine Metamagic (in my first post) is one of these feats. The Complete Divine and Complete Warrior have a good selection of others. Of particular note, IMHO, are Divine Might (CHA to Damage), Divine Vigor (+10' move speed and 2 HP/level), and Sacred Boost (maximizes all nearby healing spells). Selecting a Divine Feat gives you a lot of flexibility.</p><p></p><p>- Carefully select your domains. Look for (1) good spells that you want to cast, especially spells that clerics can't normally access and (2) strong granted abilities. Luck & Travel are the poster children: Luck has an awesome granted ability, and Travel lets you get access to excellent spells such as Fly and Teleport, as well as having a useful granted ability (Grapple-B-Gone). Strength is handy at lower levels for the Enlarge Person spell. War can be handy if the deity offers a good martial weapon that you must have. Planning/Undeath are useful for DMM abuse. Elf is good for Cleric Archers.</p><p></p><p>- A simple, non-traditional cleric build is that of the Cleric-Archer. Race: Elf. Ability Scores: Same as normal, but must have 13 Dex. Domains: Elf. Feats: Point Blank Shot (domain), 1-Rapid Shot, 3-Precise Shot, 6-Zen Archery, 9-Weapon Focus (Longbow), 12-Quicken Spell</p><p></p><p>I only suggest Weapon Focus in this build because with Rapid Shot you get extra attacks, and the +1 to hit stacks on each of them. Craft Magic Arms and Armor might be good for you too so that you can make your own magical arrows cheap (Bane arrows are great).</p><p></p><p>- Ability Scores: Clerics suffer from MAD. I.E., they rely on many ability scores. This is what I'd suggest in terms of priority:</p><p>1) WIS - Must be at least 15 at start. Higher if you plan on throwing offensive spells, but most clerics focus on buffs.</p><p>2) CON - You are a melee combatant. 14 CON is good.</p><p>3) CHA - If you plan on using DMM or Divine Feats, this should be fairly high. Otherwise, dump it to 8. It doesn't matter at all if you aren't using Divine Feats.</p><p>4) STR - Clerics are melee combatants. 14 STR is good.</p><p>5) DEX - You're going to wear full plate. 12 DEX is good to max out your AC. If you plan on being a cleric archer, you need 13 DEX to qualify for Rapid Shot.</p><p>6) INT - You don't get many SP, but you don't have many skills worth investing in, either. And you have to dump something.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="nittanytbone, post: 3498916, member: 35709"] Agreed... And that's why I suggested DMM Quicken, as well. It is often seen as much less abuseable, and besides, at 13th level, Quicken Spell is handy to have. Quickened Divine Favor is a staple of high level clerics. The OP stated that "any books were allowed," the thread title was help me "Survive," and he mentioned there would be little gold. I took that to mean that he was entering a tough campaign and needed a reasonably strong build, so I threw out the optimized standard. DMM Persistent is pretty much THE way to go above level 7 if its not banned. It is somewhat complicated, but I'd prefer to not patronize the OP. And honestly, its not that bad. You can reduce all those feats to say: "Make Righteous Might and Divine Power last for 24 hours or until dispelled by spending the spell slots and all of your turn attempts." Once the OP gets more comfortable with the spell system he can start trying different spells. In any event, here are my "simpler" rules for "How to Not Screw up a Cleric:" [I]1) Thou Shalt Not Lose Caster Levels. Almost no advantage that can be gained via multiclassing is NOT COMPARABLE. Trust me. Corollary: Thou Shalt Not Play a race with ECL+1 or greater. Losing the caster level and HD is NOT made up for by your 133T Aasimar abilities. Corollary: Thou Shalt Not Apply a template with ECL+1 or greater. Being a werebear is not worth it for a caster. 2) Thou Shalt Start with 15 WIS, and drop all stat boosts every four levels into Wisdom. This is necessary if you want to cast all your higher level spells on time. Plus, higher wisdom means more bonus spells = more stat buffs (Bull's STR, etc) to buff your other ability scores. 3) Thou Shalt Carefully Select Thy God. Pick a deity or belief/alignment that you can RP and have fun with, otherwise thy DM shall surely smite you for heresy.[/I] I think as long as you follow those simple guidelines, you'll be fine. A totally unoptimized cleric is still stronger than, say, a Fighter 13. Here's a few extra "intermediate" tips: - A Cleric's most precious commodity is his FEATS. Clerics get no bonus feats. Therefore, being a Human is particularly advantageous as the bonus feat and skill points are quite attractive. - Certain Feats are TRAPS. Avoid them at all costs. They include: Toughness (Friends Don't Let Friends Take Toughness -- Select Improved Toughness from the Complete Warrior Instead), Combat Casting (Take Skill Focus: Concentration instead), Improved Turning (at low levels, stuff is easily turned, at high levels, everything has Turn Resistance and unless you're super optimized for turning its useless), Martial Weapon Proficiency (almost never worth it, and there are better ways to get it such as PrCs or the War Domain), Weapon Focus (Usually not a great idea for most clerics, and locks you into a certain weapon), Brew Potion (Crafting Wondrous Items is much, much better). - Skills: You're short on skill points. The only mandatory skill is Concentration so that you can cast your spells without interruption. Beyond that, at least 5 ranks in Knowledge Religion lets you empower your turn undead a little bit. Having a +5 modifier in Heal (including your high wisdom) lets you take 10 on most heal checks and pass. - Get something to do with your Turn Undead attempts. Unless you're playing in Ravenloft, 90% of the time there will be no serious undead threat and one of your primary class abilities goes unused. Furthermore, at higher levels, many of the undead have turn resistance, are bolstered by high priests, etc. Because the turn mechanics are based on HD, a low-CR but high-HD monster like a giant elephant skeleton is nearly impossible to turn. So, you want something else to do with your Turn attempts. Enter Divine Feats. Divine Metamagic (in my first post) is one of these feats. The Complete Divine and Complete Warrior have a good selection of others. Of particular note, IMHO, are Divine Might (CHA to Damage), Divine Vigor (+10' move speed and 2 HP/level), and Sacred Boost (maximizes all nearby healing spells). Selecting a Divine Feat gives you a lot of flexibility. - Carefully select your domains. Look for (1) good spells that you want to cast, especially spells that clerics can't normally access and (2) strong granted abilities. Luck & Travel are the poster children: Luck has an awesome granted ability, and Travel lets you get access to excellent spells such as Fly and Teleport, as well as having a useful granted ability (Grapple-B-Gone). Strength is handy at lower levels for the Enlarge Person spell. War can be handy if the deity offers a good martial weapon that you must have. Planning/Undeath are useful for DMM abuse. Elf is good for Cleric Archers. - A simple, non-traditional cleric build is that of the Cleric-Archer. Race: Elf. Ability Scores: Same as normal, but must have 13 Dex. Domains: Elf. Feats: Point Blank Shot (domain), 1-Rapid Shot, 3-Precise Shot, 6-Zen Archery, 9-Weapon Focus (Longbow), 12-Quicken Spell I only suggest Weapon Focus in this build because with Rapid Shot you get extra attacks, and the +1 to hit stacks on each of them. Craft Magic Arms and Armor might be good for you too so that you can make your own magical arrows cheap (Bane arrows are great). - Ability Scores: Clerics suffer from MAD. I.E., they rely on many ability scores. This is what I'd suggest in terms of priority: 1) WIS - Must be at least 15 at start. Higher if you plan on throwing offensive spells, but most clerics focus on buffs. 2) CON - You are a melee combatant. 14 CON is good. 3) CHA - If you plan on using DMM or Divine Feats, this should be fairly high. Otherwise, dump it to 8. It doesn't matter at all if you aren't using Divine Feats. 4) STR - Clerics are melee combatants. 14 STR is good. 5) DEX - You're going to wear full plate. 12 DEX is good to max out your AC. If you plan on being a cleric archer, you need 13 DEX to qualify for Rapid Shot. 6) INT - You don't get many SP, but you don't have many skills worth investing in, either. And you have to dump something. [/QUOTE]
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