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First time making a "serious" dungeon! How do you do it?
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7023703" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>That's an idea – sort of leaving 3 to be discoverable during the course of exploring the dungeon, in case the PCs decide to beat a tactical retreat or take a different approach.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Thanks. Yeah, templates are where it's at. I've never delved into making a big dungeon in all my 26 years playing and DMing – besides being a kid and filling up a piece of graph paper with nonsensical ideas just because I could <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /> – so I have no template yet. But the sorts of steps you describe in your work flow – layers, outlines/drop glows, grids – are things I'm pretty familiar with.</p><p></p><p>I've been exploring <a href="http://pyromancers.com/dungeon-painter-online/" target="_blank">Dungeon Painter</a> recently and it does seem to accelerate the speed of working up a dungeon map...as long as I don't try anything too fancy (which there's usually a high risk of).</p><p></p><p>Right now I'm tackling my areas that have sub-areas. These are the Great Garden and Tower of the Bonfire, which each functions as a mini-dungeon of 5-14 rooms in its own right. Here's my very work-in progress image of the Great Garden map.</p><p></p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/fIE1WvZ.png" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>I'll describe what's going on... <strong><em>The Great Gardens</em></strong> is a blend of Persian garden in a rough <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charbagh" target="_blank">Charbagh</a> style + the <a href="http://www.undergroundgardens.com/" target="_blank">Forestiere Underground Gardens</a> in Fresno, CA + whatever wild fantasy Arabian-esque I pull out of my hat.</p><p></p><p>It acts as a central hub within Krak al-Mazhar, connecting many of the areas. The ceiling of the ~120-foot diameter chamber has a powerful illusion simulating the day and night cycle of the sky in the desert above. There are three levels to the garden, which I'm still working out out the themes behind, with roughly 14 areas split among them. At the center is the Fountain of the Ghuls where a great ghul and her handmaidens (lesser ghuls) attempt to lure creatures to their doom, but can be negotiated with and may even prove helpful if their selfish desires are fulfilled; the disguised ghuls also serve to reinforce the "garden of paradise" which is used when brainwashing new fedayeen into the Flamedeath holy slayer fellowship. A guardian genie (and its copper automaton servants) is tasked with protecting the garden from thieves/intruders, but cares little for the ghuls or other creatures found within it.</p><p></p><p>The main trick to the garden is that it is under a mighty enchantment that works something like a permanent <em>maze</em> spell. Since there's no option to make <em>maze</em> permanent for even a 20th level caster, presumably this was created by plot-level magic.</p><p></p><p>Creatures that enter the garden are affected by an enchantment (unless they're immune to the charmed condition, or they speak the password before entering) and find themselves unable to see the exits. Instead the perforated lattices appear to be overgrown with plants. A character looking for an exit can spend an action to make a DC 20 Intelligence (Investigation) check. If they succeed, they perceive the nearest exit to them and can leave no problem. If they fail, they end up wandering to a random sub-area of the Great Garden in their search of the exit.</p><p></p><p>A few considerations of things players might try...</p><p></p><p><strong><em>I cast true seeing / use my gem of seeing. What do you think about that?</em></strong> Except it's not an illusion. It's an enchantment affecting the mind.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Something is fishy here. What happens if I attack the exterior walls? Or if Bob casts fireball at it?</em></strong> You swing and hack, but there seems to be a never-ending amount of foliage and silk drapes, and then you stumble out of them, swinging your sword in a wild swing uncomfortably close to your friends. Bob's fireball burns the morning glories and silks to a crisp so you're now looking at a charred perforated stone lattice though you feel like you're looking in the wrong place...maybe the exit is back in the room with the poppies where you found the potion of healing? And you hear something large moving towards you through the garden passages, perhaps its guardian?</p><p></p><p><strong><em>I found a way out? OK, I'll tell the others to follow me. Come on, Bob.</em></strong> While slipping through the silk drapes, hanging pots, and overgrown palms and myrtles you lose track of one another... <strong><em>What? Can I like hold his hand?</em></strong> Sure, you hold Bob's hand and lead him out of the garden. The air feels drier and clearer here. <strong><em>OK, now I'm going to go back for the others.</em></strong> Great! <strong><em>When I go back in can I see the exit?</em></strong> You reenter the gardens, brushing aside the silks and immediately are struck by the sweet humid smell in the air. Everything seems more vivid here. Behind you is a stone lattice with overhanging vines. You know there should be an exit here, but you can't seem to locate it. Do you want to search? <strong><em>Yes, crap, I got an 18.</em></strong> Ok, as you search you realize that maybe this burn mark is from another of your companions or someone else lost in the gardens. You swear there was something that you touched that felt like the edge of an archway leaving the garden, so you feel around... <rolls a die> ...and you come to spiral stairs leading up and down. <strong><em>Crap! Again?!?</em></strong> Yes. <strong><em>OK, I'm not taking the stairs this time. Can I backtrack to the fountain with the princess?</em></strong> Absolutely.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Screw this, everyone let's reassemble. I'm casting teleport! To our desert camp.</em></strong> Ok, you teleport away!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7023703, member: 20323"] That's an idea – sort of leaving 3 to be discoverable during the course of exploring the dungeon, in case the PCs decide to beat a tactical retreat or take a different approach. Thanks. Yeah, templates are where it's at. I've never delved into making a big dungeon in all my 26 years playing and DMing – besides being a kid and filling up a piece of graph paper with nonsensical ideas just because I could :p – so I have no template yet. But the sorts of steps you describe in your work flow – layers, outlines/drop glows, grids – are things I'm pretty familiar with. I've been exploring [url=pyromancers.com/dungeon-painter-online/]Dungeon Painter[/url] recently and it does seem to accelerate the speed of working up a dungeon map...as long as I don't try anything too fancy (which there's usually a high risk of). Right now I'm tackling my areas that have sub-areas. These are the Great Garden and Tower of the Bonfire, which each functions as a mini-dungeon of 5-14 rooms in its own right. Here's my very work-in progress image of the Great Garden map. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/fIE1WvZ.png[/IMG] I'll describe what's going on... [B][I]The Great Gardens[/I][/B] is a blend of Persian garden in a rough [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charbagh]Charbagh[/url] style + the [url=http://www.undergroundgardens.com/]Forestiere Underground Gardens[/url] in Fresno, CA + whatever wild fantasy Arabian-esque I pull out of my hat. It acts as a central hub within Krak al-Mazhar, connecting many of the areas. The ceiling of the ~120-foot diameter chamber has a powerful illusion simulating the day and night cycle of the sky in the desert above. There are three levels to the garden, which I'm still working out out the themes behind, with roughly 14 areas split among them. At the center is the Fountain of the Ghuls where a great ghul and her handmaidens (lesser ghuls) attempt to lure creatures to their doom, but can be negotiated with and may even prove helpful if their selfish desires are fulfilled; the disguised ghuls also serve to reinforce the "garden of paradise" which is used when brainwashing new fedayeen into the Flamedeath holy slayer fellowship. A guardian genie (and its copper automaton servants) is tasked with protecting the garden from thieves/intruders, but cares little for the ghuls or other creatures found within it. The main trick to the garden is that it is under a mighty enchantment that works something like a permanent [I]maze[/I] spell. Since there's no option to make [I]maze[/I] permanent for even a 20th level caster, presumably this was created by plot-level magic. Creatures that enter the garden are affected by an enchantment (unless they're immune to the charmed condition, or they speak the password before entering) and find themselves unable to see the exits. Instead the perforated lattices appear to be overgrown with plants. A character looking for an exit can spend an action to make a DC 20 Intelligence (Investigation) check. If they succeed, they perceive the nearest exit to them and can leave no problem. If they fail, they end up wandering to a random sub-area of the Great Garden in their search of the exit. A few considerations of things players might try... [B][I]I cast true seeing / use my gem of seeing. What do you think about that?[/I][/B] Except it's not an illusion. It's an enchantment affecting the mind. [B][I]Something is fishy here. What happens if I attack the exterior walls? Or if Bob casts fireball at it?[/I][/B] You swing and hack, but there seems to be a never-ending amount of foliage and silk drapes, and then you stumble out of them, swinging your sword in a wild swing uncomfortably close to your friends. Bob's fireball burns the morning glories and silks to a crisp so you're now looking at a charred perforated stone lattice though you feel like you're looking in the wrong place...maybe the exit is back in the room with the poppies where you found the potion of healing? And you hear something large moving towards you through the garden passages, perhaps its guardian? [B][I]I found a way out? OK, I'll tell the others to follow me. Come on, Bob.[/I][/B] While slipping through the silk drapes, hanging pots, and overgrown palms and myrtles you lose track of one another... [B][I]What? Can I like hold his hand?[/I][/B] Sure, you hold Bob's hand and lead him out of the garden. The air feels drier and clearer here. [B][I]OK, now I'm going to go back for the others.[/I][/B] Great! [B][I]When I go back in can I see the exit?[/I][/B] You reenter the gardens, brushing aside the silks and immediately are struck by the sweet humid smell in the air. Everything seems more vivid here. Behind you is a stone lattice with overhanging vines. You know there should be an exit here, but you can't seem to locate it. Do you want to search? [B][I]Yes, crap, I got an 18.[/I][/B] Ok, as you search you realize that maybe this burn mark is from another of your companions or someone else lost in the gardens. You swear there was something that you touched that felt like the edge of an archway leaving the garden, so you feel around... <rolls a die> ...and you come to spiral stairs leading up and down. [B][I]Crap! Again?!?[/I][/B] Yes. [B][I]OK, I'm not taking the stairs this time. Can I backtrack to the fountain with the princess?[/I][/B] Absolutely. [B][I]Screw this, everyone let's reassemble. I'm casting teleport! To our desert camp.[/I][/B] Ok, you teleport away! [/QUOTE]
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