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flaming sphere vs. invisibility
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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 3149085" data-attributes="member: 1656"><p>What does "Saving Throw: Reflex negates" mean?</p><p></p><p><em>The Saving Throw entry in a spell description defines which type of saving throw the spell allows and describes how saving throws against the spell work.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Negates: The spell has no effect on a subject that makes a successful saving throw.</em></p><p></p><p>The type of saving throw <em>the spell</em> allows. How saving throws against <em>the spell</em> work. <em>The spell</em> has no effect on the subject.</p><p></p><p>Flaming Sphere is a spell that opponents resist with a saving throw.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>PHB p171:</p><p></p><p><em>Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. For instance, invisibility is dispelled if you attack anyone or anything while under its effects. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents (such as disarm and bull rush) are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.</em></p><p></p><p>Invisibility is the example spell used to show where this definition applies. Another example might be Sanctuary. Unlike Sanctuary, Invisibility has further qualities that might define an action as an attack, but the p171 definition must also apply, since Invisibility is the example used.</p><p></p><p>So in addition to the p171 definition, Invisibility also considers any spell targeting a foe or an spell whose area or effect includes a foe. But the p171 definition - including "spells that opponents resist with saving throws" - must apply, and Flaming Sphere is a "spell that opponents resist with saving throws", since it has "Saving Throw: Reflex Negates", and this defines whether or not <em>the spell</em> has an effect on the subject.</p><p></p><p>-Hyp.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 3149085, member: 1656"] What does "Saving Throw: Reflex negates" mean? [i]The Saving Throw entry in a spell description defines which type of saving throw the spell allows and describes how saving throws against the spell work. Negates: The spell has no effect on a subject that makes a successful saving throw.[/i] The type of saving throw [i]the spell[/i] allows. How saving throws against [i]the spell[/i] work. [i]The spell[/i] has no effect on the subject. Flaming Sphere is a spell that opponents resist with a saving throw. PHB p171: [i]Attacks: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. For instance, invisibility is dispelled if you attack anyone or anything while under its effects. All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents (such as disarm and bull rush) are considered attacks. Attempts to turn or rebuke undead count as attacks. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don’t harm anyone.[/i] Invisibility is the example spell used to show where this definition applies. Another example might be Sanctuary. Unlike Sanctuary, Invisibility has further qualities that might define an action as an attack, but the p171 definition must also apply, since Invisibility is the example used. So in addition to the p171 definition, Invisibility also considers any spell targeting a foe or an spell whose area or effect includes a foe. But the p171 definition - including "spells that opponents resist with saving throws" - must apply, and Flaming Sphere is a "spell that opponents resist with saving throws", since it has "Saving Throw: Reflex Negates", and this defines whether or not [i]the spell[/i] has an effect on the subject. -Hyp. [/QUOTE]
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